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Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭GHendrix


    Statistically speaking, our roads are some of the safest in Europe.

    2018 and 2019 seem to be the outliers. I notice that although there were less deaths in 2018, there was more injuries. Maybe we just got a bit lucky…

    I don’t see any major evidence of a big increase over a longer period.

    But it would definitely be good to know if we did something different in those better years .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭Mo Ghile Mear


    It shouldn’t be the case that we only drive safely if we’re afraid of being caught. Responsible drivers need to have the attitude that safe driving is essential for our own and everyone else’s safety, even if you never see a traffic checkpoint. It’s really immature and socially unacceptable to be trying to get away with speeding or drink driving, just because you can.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    would our road deaths be so low if we had levels of cycling like they have in the netherlands or denmark, though?



  • Posts: 24,009 Draven Magnificent Coyote


    I know that junction extremely well, drive past it every day of my working life for over a decade.



  • Posts: 24,009 Draven Magnificent Coyote


    I’ve been to ms y East European countries and driving is generally appalling. There are good drivers in these countries too and they say you have to drive extremely defensively to survive and to have eyes on the back of your head. Travelling from Warsaw Airport to the city centre I passed three accident sites, some people covered in blood by the side of the road, I was in a Warsaw taxi where the driver was watching a football match on a television he had installed and driving like a lunatic. Another car I was in was almost driving into sideways. It makes Italy look sedate. Indeed in parts of Italy driving is fine.

    In Hungary I was in a bus where a car cut right across its path very suddenly, a very near thing, guide said local drivers are dreadful. In Bulgaria they have a big campaign on to try and lower deaths, with police stopping and checking vehicles frequently, making sure seatbelts are being worn, and old car wrecks are placed strategically to remind drivers to slow down.

    Romania has good and wreckless drivers, the latter just pull out onto a main road without checking if anything is coming, much to the consternation of the careful drivers.

    The best driving I’ve seen in Europe recently was in the Costa de La Luz region, Spain.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    The issue wont be solved without two things.

    Number 1 - Enforcement - there needs to be more traffic garda driving up and down the roads of the country 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Every single little infraction needs to be fined / penalty points etc.

    Couple of examples I see every single day on a journey from Maynooth to Dunboyne. Over taking on solid whites, on bends , on a hill - every single day both directions. 3 roundabouts on the Dunboyne bypass - Left lane is for going left and straight, right lane for right - its not a two lane road yet every idiot thinks they can skip the traffic by getting into the right lane and then going straight veering into traffic already on the roundabout going straight - I honestly dont know how someone hasnt been killed on that road yet with the overtaking on it.

    Maynooth is ridiculous every evening - not one driver will leave a yellow box empty for traffic taking right turns. Not one - theres 7 sets of lights from the N4 to Maynooth village and its the same every evening - every yellow box blocked. Last night a Garda car stopped in the yellow box and blocked it for 3 light changes - How do people learn to drive properly when the very people that are supposed to enforce the laws are breaking them??

    Number 2 - Theres a sense of self entitlement that has crept into Irish society and not just about driving where we have become a very rude , ignorant country. The amount of people that think they are more entitled to get where they are going without other road users consideration is crazy. Theres one lad out here that absolutely doesnt give 2 **** about the other drivers. I had footage of him driving on teh opposite side of the road and if you know Maynooth there are traffic islands basically the whole length of the main road - this idiot goes around these islands to skip the traffic . And hes not a boy racer type - hes a business man in a suit. Just a self entitled asshole.


    Dash cam footage should be allowed to convict someone without having to go to a Garda station and make a statement - there should be a garda website that allows you to upload footage, reviewed by a garda and then a decision made to prosecute etc. More red light cameras, yellow box cameras etc. We have the technology that should make up the shortfall in Garda numbers and it should be used to convict and get the idiots off the road.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The "problem" with dashcam footage is that it is not a witness or evidence. It merely backs up your written statement which is the evidence.

    This is why the forthcoming dashcam portal for reporting incidents will be a load of crap - you still have to pop into the Garda Station to watch a Garda write down your statement as you dictate it.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    But surely in this day and age dash cam footage could be viewed by a Garda member, a decision made as to whether an offence has taken place and then the appropriate action taken and the vehicle owner contacted. If the constitution needs to change to allow that then so be it.

    We have the means to automate a lot of these low level infractions freeing up the Garda to deal with the drivers doing 200 kmph on motorways.

    As for phone use - would it not be easy for car manufacturers to put a mobile phone signal blocker or build a faraday cage into the structure in their cars from say 2030? If you want to use the phone there would be a compartment in say the boot that allows the phone to access the mobile network and bluetooth to the radio.

    Theres ways around everything if they used their heads- Vision Zero is not an achievable goal unless there are drastic changes in enforcement and peoples attitudes and I for one cant see it happening with these changes taking place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,683 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    One practical measure would be to remove all LH drive cars off our roads, if they are here for longer than say 4 weeks to allow for holiday makers. Exceptions for specialist vehicles e.g. specific agricultural and construction machinery etc

    We surely can't be having LH drive cars imported into the country for normal use on our roads. This seems to be a growing practice with non nationals.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭GTTDI GOD


    Exactly, even just for satnav or the likes.


    in taxis/ubers if passengers are feeling unsafe, no coverage to call a friend to keep on the phone, even just using maps to make sure they’re not going off route. There’s loads of reasons a phone is used in a car, not just the driver



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But surely in this day and age dash cam footage could be viewed by a Garda member, a decision made as to whether an offence has taken place and then the appropriate action taken and the vehicle owner contacted. If the constitution needs to change to allow that then so be it.

    We have the means to automate a lot of these low level infractions freeing up the Garda to deal with the drivers doing 200 kmph on motorways.

    If this was to change, we would need a number of laws changed concerning chain of evidence, etc. All doable but our legislators obviously don't see it as a priority.

    As for phone use - would it not be easy for car manufacturers to put a mobile phone signal blocker or build a faraday cage into the structure in their cars from say 2030? If you want to use the phone there would be a compartment in say the boot that allows the phone to access the mobile network and bluetooth to the radio.

    Manufacturers will not do anything that makes their product less desirable. In terms of concern for people's safety, may I remind you of the Ford Pinto scandal.

    Theres ways around everything if they used their heads- Vision Zero is not an achievable goal unless there are drastic changes in enforcement and peoples attitudes and I for one cant see it happening with these changes taking place.

    Even the RSA, who are responsible for rolling out Vision Zero, don't seem to believe in it given that they continue targeting the victims as the ones who need to change their behaviour.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    What did we do before we all had devices in our hands?

    If we`re not responsible enough to put the phone away then drastic measures need to be taken.

    There has to be work arounds for passengers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,683 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Is there any evidence of left hand drive vehicles as a source of danger, or is this another excuse to take a kick at people from other countries? There's no such thing as 'non national' btw. Everybody has nationality. Some people have nationality that's different to your nationality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ARX



    It's funny you should say that. I've cycled probably 3/4000 km (both urban and rural) in Czech republic, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, and I found the standard of driving around cyclists to be far better than here. No dangerous overtaking, nobody pulled out in front of me at a junction (in fact in Poland, when approaching a junction on my right, drivers waiting to emerge onto the road on which I was travelling would often reverse a little, which I assume was a signal to let me know they'd seen me and weren't going to pull out). Even on the main road through the Suwalki Gap - which was full of Russian HGVs - I didn't have any problems.

    That said, I've never driven in those countries, so perhaps they are more careful around cyclists than around other drivers. The accident statistics reflect your experience more than mine

    I've cycled across northern Italy and again the driving was fine. The worst driving I've seen outside Ireland was in south-east England and the south of France.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,683 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I think youve hit the nail on the head.

    our legislators obviously don't see it as a priority.

    Thats the issue right there - they dont see it as a priority - couple of hundred deaths a year - sure it not like cancer or heart disease.

    Its not even like suicide - 449 deaths in 2021.

    They love these grand gestures and basically do nothing about making the changes required.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I honestly dont know as Im not an electronics engineer but Im sure someone with a background in electronics could come up with a solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ARX


    "And hes not a boy racer type - hes a business man in a suit."

    I used to live not far from there and I found the boy racers (I mean the modified cars that were popular 15-20 years ago) to be more considerate and safer around me (on a bike) than most other drivers. When they wanted to overtake, they'd wait until it was safe, move to the opposite lane, drop it two gears and redline it. Middle-aged men in saloon cars were probably the worst.

    I like to think that this was because the boy racers liked cars and took pride in driving well, whereas for most drivers the notion of driving well would be like the notion of operating a dishwasher well. Although maybe they were just scared of losing their NCBs and having to pay a fortune for insurance!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Assuming you drive in Ireland, have you driven your RH drive car on the continent? If so, then you will know full well the additional risks. It's patently obvious that if LH drive vehicles were as safe to drive here, then we'd all be driving them as the costs of vehicles would be a lot cheaper.

    This is a road safety issue, we don't need Europeans to be coming to work/ live in this state and bringing their cars across on the ferry to drive them here. It's the sort of practice that should be stamped out now. No re registrations, insurance companies advised not to insure, seized - impounded and crushed.



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  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Phone blockers are illegal AFAIK, there are emergency services personnel that have to be reachable at any time. Cinemas looked at bringing them and couldn't for that reason.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they need to bring in legislation about phone mounts in cars - i've seen plenty of cars with a mount attached to the screen, so the phone actually sits in the driver's eyeline. AFAIK that's legal as it means the phone is not being handheld.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think the main reason the majority of our politicians don't want to bring in change is because it would largely be unpopular and vote losing. Look at the opposition to any potential project that reallocates road space to footpaths or segregated cycle lanes as a case in point. Imagine then the public opposition to having to keep to speed limits. Imagine the furore if people couldn't use their phones in the car and all the phony excuses ("what if I need to call my disabled grandmother who just fell off a cliff because a speeding cyclist in lycra was using the footpath and knocked her over?")



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,839 ✭✭✭FishOnABike




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭ARX


    And this is really all that needs to be said on the subject. Yeah, it's kinda sad that all these people die and get maimed, and that children lose their parents and parents bury their children, but not so sad that we're going to give up Instagram. I mean, Instagram. Come on, like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,683 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's not an engineering problem, unless you want to build a Faraday cage around the driver's seat.

    I love the idea of phones being disabled, but I don't think it's an option. I wondered about the requirement to 'sacrifice' one phone to be disabled, supposedly the driver's phone, but sure the feckers would just bring a spare phone.

    And multiply that obstruction by two or three for the average taxi driver.

    So no actual evidence then, that's what I thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,147 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    To combat phone use the Gardaí should publish a monthly list of all those fined for using their phone that month. Scrotes will be scrotes but most people wouldn't want their name published in this manner, especially those with responsible careers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭creedp


    Its probably a reflex response as he might just be confused about which thread he's posting in

    Those solutions to lhd cars are a bit drastic😁 An easier way would be to put a mandatory loading on lhd cars insured here and enforce it



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,014 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    The technology exists to just block the drivers phone.

    From what I gather the car detects if the driver is using their phone while moving and just blocks the drivers immediate area.

    Heres another one.

    And another

    w w w.nsc.org/road/safety-topics/distracted-driving/technology-solutions

    Wont allow a direct link.

    The technology exists.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,609 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Unless it is mandated at EU level it is hard to see it ever being implemented.

    Car manufacturers will not add such disruptive & expensive technology for only the Irish market.

    Also aren't emergency services, first responders, RNLI etc permitted to use phones while driving? Or is it just the ngarrrdai



This discussion has been closed.
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