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Ian Bailey RIP - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Obviously, not many are sad that Bailey died a sad, lonely, unhappy life but it's a pity Sophie's family didn't see him get locked up. The net was tightening on Bailey, he knew the game was up. His heart couldn't handle it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    Well...this is not well informed statement. Here's why

    Firstly it's true not many are sad..and he died lonely and sad. But how was net tightening on him exactly?

    A couple of points of note

    -recent Irish times pole if it means anything indicated that massive divide in opinion weather IB committed the crime or not

    -uk former forensics investigator got the complete files and spoke with bailey in recent months...has read large amounts of files of entire case and could not see any evidence pointing to one person. Was in sensed why the guards took DNA from lots of people including IB but only focused on IB. Numerous other angles never persued

    -The DNA and any other evidence willingly provided by IB and yet no match to anything at scene...but your saying net tightening?


    The net is tightening on guardai and new crime review team having to explain and reason with Sophie's family the dpp and Irish people and French people to explain wholly and transparently why they conducted the investigation in the way they did...as it has completely blinded everyone to getting actual truth...focussing on one person where therw could be least another 3.

    I'm still not saying IB is/ isn't guilty but how you conclude it's tigening is laughable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    The guards weren't talking to Bailey, the cold case team were making great progress, local stories of them breaking new ground, Bailey screwed up and admitted he had met Sophie at the arts festival. The net was tightening fast and Bailey's heart wasn't in it. Good riddance to bad rubbish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    They searched his flat when he died ..why not before...confront him...

    The cold case were making great progress...does that mean they are not now? What is great progress ..

    I agree on that point...his previous statements here are very strange ..may have seen her from afar...had seen her through window..sure it was her etc. for me I do believe that's crucial area and he did know her...but proof is needed.

    Certainly his heart could easily be result of significant amount of years living in fear...drinking excessively, cigarettes, lifestyle , violence of his partner..it's all leads to downward spiral...but it still doesn't give us actual DNA we need place him at scene .

    I agree I don't like look of him no more than next ..but I'm not convinced by full willingness to always put forward any DNA and take hair or any other sample In evidence is very much a indication of truth...to be that confident of leaving no DNA at scene .

    like do you think investigation was carried out well..



  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭Lecter8319


    Bailey didn’t do it. All the evidence points to a Randy Garda she had a number of interactions with prior to her murder. He probably had a fill of pints, bit of coke & thought she ‘d only be delighted to see him. When she turned him down, he couldn’t control his temper. Gards have been setting Bailey up from the beginning as he’s an easy target (English, woman beater, no alibi, fond of whiskey, not well liked) & are never going to admit they got it wrong now. There was a ford escort seen speeding away from the scene after the murder which was known to belong to a certain local aswell. The Gards are corrupt as hell in this country but were rained in by a competent DPP at the time. The current DPP though leaves a lot to be desired and will have no issue blackening Baileys name after his death. We’re a disgrace of a country for treating an innocent man like this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Evergreen_7


    What evidence is there to back this up exactly??


    oh wait. None.



  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭Lecter8319


    What real evidence do you have that Bailey did it?


    Oh wait, none



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    local stories of them breaking new ground, Bailey screwed up and admitted he had met Sophie at the arts festival.

    What arts festival?

    Where are you getting this information?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It is alluded to here.

    There was some photographer a few years back who said he thought he saw talking at the Cape Clear festival in 1995. Now, that would be some memory because there's no indication he knew Sophie, so just remembered the face. No indication he took any direct photos of it but the Cold Case team were supposed to be going through general shots of the festival.

    It could have just been Bailey saying something like... they're saying I was at X the way he seems to sometimes do and people take it up as him saying it.

    Ian Bailey secretly recorded his life over the past three years and gave it to filmmakers before he died. It was all done on a tablet he was provided with by award-winning director Jim Sheridan's documentary team... It is believed Bailey did admit to some of Sheridan's producers that he did know Sophie and that they met during a literary festival in Cape Clear, but he then later denied ever saying it.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ian-bailey-secret-recordings-cork-32043688

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    A source said

    With the tabloids that source is usually "John" sitting at the next office cubicle who may of heard something down the pub.

    If Sheridan is making another documentary I imagine it won't be released until after the Cold Case concludes.

    It sounds very much like to me giving his interviews since his first one, his focus will be more on France.

    He will definitely get his foot in the door of people who know Sophie and her Husband back then given who he is and the connections he has.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I believe he looks at Wollney among others. Marie Farrell will also play a part. Sheridan spent a long time with Jules, I wonder will her alibis and the “mislaid” first handwritten statement be discussed? Bailey might have sent him all his stuff, but somehow I think not much time will be spent on him. Sophie’s family will be disappointed.

    It’s a fictionalised version of the murder, a bit like his brother’s book. So I for one won’t be holding out much hope for any new major revelations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Evidence against anyone is mostly circumstantial. Any credible circumstantial evidence against the randy Garda?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That's not his brother.

    He had 5 brothers, one died when he was 11.

    The only other one that would be known is Peter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yes you're right,

    I always thought they were brothers. Every day a schoolday!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    The one in Cape Clear. He admitted it to one of Jim Sheridan's producers. He met and spoke to Sophie on at least this occasion.

    Or are we adding this producer to the long list of people involved in the conspiracy against poor woman beating Bailey?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    According to the Irish Mirror and a unknown source.

    We will file that under wait and see.

    Or are we adding this producer to the long list of people involved in the conspiracy against poor woman beating Bailey?

    There was certainly a conspiracy against him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,163 ✭✭✭chicorytip




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Excellent post over on Reddit today;

    Murder at the cottage, "The Harrying of Jules"

    Long read, but certainly worth a look.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Just on this point, there was an article (which I took as legitimate) in the paper (Irish - can’t recall which one) at the start of the year. Apparently in the early to mid 90s, I can’t remember what year but might have been 1994 or 5, an arts festival took place. Apparently both Bailey and Sophie attended that festival - not necessarily “together”.

    A named person who I cannot recall, has apparently handed over many hours of video camera footage of that festival to the Gardai. The paper went on to say that Gardai were commencing the review of all of that footage - can’t remember the number of hours off the top of my head but it was substantial.

    I could well have posted the article here at the time but just can’t recall now - but it’s apparently something being taken seriously by Gardai - let’s see if anything comes of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Here’s the article Irish Times - behind paywall - here’s an excerpt


    “Gardaí investigating the murder of Sophie Toscan du Planter have started examining hours of video footage from cultural events held in west Cork in the mid-1990s to see if they show the French film producer with the chief suspect in the case, Ian Bailey.

    Photojournalist Stephen Bean confirmed he had handed over 16 90-minute long Hi8 video tapes recorded at events held in the area to officers from the Serious Crime Review team who are re-examining the original investigation into the 1996 murder.

    He said these included footage from a storytelling festival on Cape Clear and art exhibition openings in Skibereen and Schull from between 1993 and 1995.”





  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    It's certainly a chink of light to go on..and could tie some of that circumstantial evidence together...knowing her puts lot more focus on his movements ...unless some further accounts from someone new to coroperate this or other evidence...but again its wishful thinking without DNA at scene..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭nc6000


    That was a very interesting and nicely explains the very dubious methods used by the Gardai around the time of the arrests.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    ..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It’s a wait and see - IF Bailey and Sophie are videoed together talking, it’s essentially a game changer for me given his absolute denial of having never met her- whilst some of the accusations can certainly be rebuffed, Bailey strongly denied this aspect of having met Sophie ever -a video of them conversing would completely swing me towards beyond reasonable doubt



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    Yes that is very accurate to say and it would be massive leap forward. I do feel putting everything else aside on IB , he has been hesitant more that anything on the knowing her element. Each of the responses over the years have been noticeable different I felt...it's only real grey area I could see with him..like he definitely said I seen here through the window ...but other times we're like I seen her from a far at her house , or I was aware of her...and had seen her but never actually met ..but knew of her. You just feel by them deviations he knew her. Truly the tapewor



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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    **Truly the tapes could be last vital piece of evidence left



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Each of those responses essentially say the same thing. If they were all identical or too similar it would be far more suspicious and indicative of a carefully rehearsed and remembered answer. That they vary in detail is more indicative of them being true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,154 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06




  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    I know your right I guess that's only thing I was going on was hesitancy when he said them this way they are all same though and proves nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    i guess Individual “perceptions” of Bailey is nearly the only thing people have to hang their hat on.

    The total lack of concrete evidence - DNA, reliable eye witnesses on the night- it leaves a void that people feel they have to fill themselves.

    And they fill that with any piece of “evidence” they can. I think it’s a natural thing to do- I guess people want closure so they try and rationalise what information they have and draw their own conclusions.

    I don’t think it’s necessarily right or wrong- it’s probably just the human condition -none of us have the full list of evidence in front of us so all this discussion is a mere guessing game anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yes, I've noticed the same thing.

    Bailey is such an obnoxious creep that people subconsciously want it to be him. Understandable to a degree, its very difficult to have any sympathy for such an unpleasant character.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    This is without a doubt how I am at moment. One of best posts ive read here. But it's so true. I wouldn't watch any more netflix or Jim Sheridan , I'd like be going through then tapes of that festival in cape clear...just to see if any truth in if they met or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Pretty damning of the keystone cops we have in Ireland



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think part of it is that the public have become conditioned by AGS and certain elements of the media into believing that Bailey did it. Now, maybe he did and maybe he didn't but currently - and despite what others claim - there is absolutely no evidence to indicate that he committed this murder. There are a few circumstantial bits that two DPPs have said (in an unusual critique of the Garda case) that are legally not worth a sh1te!

    The atrocity of an investigation led by a combination of incompetence and corruption all leaked to a willing media has us all knowing so much about Bailey but ask a random person on the street to name one other potential suspect and they won't be able to.

    If Bailey did it, I'd like to see him somehow resurrected and then hanged, drawn and quartered. However, as it stands, he is no more guilty that you or I!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I imagine if video existed it would have already been found. It's not like this case hasn't garnered much attention.

    But lets say for argument sake he is seeing on some video talking to Sophie at a festival where apparently everyone talked to everyone.

    I severely doubt that would be the tipping point for the DPP to initiate a prosecution. But but but he lied. He also spent half his waking day inebriated.

    Also witnesses years after an event claiming they definitely saw them talking to someone at an event are beyond unreliable. A brief conversation with someone would be so inconsequential that the person engaged in the conversation would struggle to remember it, let alone a third party who saw it. Think about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    What you say from a court of law or legal perspective is certainly true in my view.its definitely no smoking gun.

    But if a video emerges with Bailey in conversation with Sophie, from a public opinion perspective, I think that will sway many people who may be currently expressing a lot of doubt around Baileys involvement - at the very least they may be less vocal in expressing any type of support for him .

    It’s still just an opinion nothing more- but what’s left to have ? It’s not like Gardaí will uncover anything of significance that will move this case toward beyond reasonable doubt.

    Bailey was adamant on never meeting Sophie - not even a brief introduction by a neighbour was admitted to.

    In fairness if you did converse with a foreign woman for any degree of time at a festival beyond a short exchange of pleasantries , just a few years ago at a festival, you may not instantly recall it, but if the resultant circumstances such as these emerged, I think you would remember eventually -



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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    I totally agree like at this stage it will count for little for sway the DPP in any way. He could have been totally unable recall such eventful if I'm sure there is considerable amount of people at festival and similarly for anyone to remember events now is beyond them.

    Ultimately we have a case that needs to be started at beginning. Like is there any timeline for any remaining DNA evidence being reviewed...or I guess that's confidential to cold case review team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭TokTik


    The human brain and memory doesn’t work like that. It’s not some hard drive that you can just go into an old file and pull up something from years ago. If you were at a festival and chatting to multiple people, locals, tourists, vendors etc and something happened to one of them, would you be able to recall a brief chat with them??

    Would you understand and be ok with being harassed and called a murderer because of your lack of recollection? Especially if you’d had a good few drinks taken at the festival? And were a heavy drinker in the meantime?

    It’s desperate straw clutching by an organisation that’s spent the past few years conditioning people to believe that it was Bailey, because if it wasn’t there’ll be hell to pay. Like a gambler putting his rent money on the last race because he KNOWS this horse will win. And when it doesn’t it’s not his fault for not checking the form etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    Im clutching at absolute straws as regards how this investigation is ever going to come to conclusion given the process of focussing on one individual and now the likelihood of getting information on other suspects is seriously diminished.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,578 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    In fairness if you did converse with a foreign woman for any degree of time at a festival beyond a short exchange of pleasantries , just a few years ago at a festival, you may not instantly recall it, but if the resultant circumstances such as these emerged, I think you would remember eventually -

    I don't think her been foreign would be an outlier given the make up of the area.

    The circumstances could also create a false memory especially for a 3rd party.

    And especially if the Muldoon guards got to that third party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Even after he's dead Bailey apologists live on. Why are you all so keen to defend this meeting with Sophie?



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    Well I mean..what do we have on it..tapes being reviewed so we will have a meeting at festivals with loads of people lots of nationalities and its nearly 30 years ago...what will it give us..no knowledge of what they are saying or even if we see brief encounters ...it could all be random people drinking etc..so not much to defend IB on. If he has known her and they have sufficient length of footage then it's certainly a decent piece of circumstantial evidence and can change elements of case up to now but what can be actually done with it...most of posts here are saying this earlier...I'm open to idea its massive evidence if they are seen be more than short conversation and maybe seen numerous times or if there was any embrace..then this is vital evidence ...but we are as before..unless we have evidence to convict IB then other suspects should be reviewed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭Musicrules




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Fair enough in terms of the nationality- west cork was famous for its variety of nationalities- I still think though that if he had nothing to do with the murder, Bailey would have gone over in his mind whom he had met in the locality through the years.

    In the early days before arrest, he may well have said that he knew her vaguely or met her once but he didn’t. He was adamant he never knew her- that’s a risky thing to say if you were seeing publicly with her- on the balance of probability I’d say he was telling the truth.

    Leaving aside the disputed 90% certain supposed introduction, I honestly don’t believe he did meet her- be it a diary entry by Sophie, or a mention in a phone call to a friend (and I don’t mean that story that materialised nearly 20 years after the murder) there’s nothing really of note to say he knew her- it’s a small locality overall - some credible witness would have come forward at the time had they met publicly I believe.

    You’re then faced with the prospect that Bailey went to a house he hadn’t been to before to meet a woman he never met before at an unearthly hour of the night, with the sole purpose of killing her ir at least forcing himself on her and killing her when she rebuked him, just like that serial murderer I posted about a few pages back.

    It’s a big ask here, no less in a court of law, to believe that story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Zola1000


    Yes, but is this in statement at Garda HQ or in DPP file? From what I'm aware I haven't seen this in DPP file ..so yes it's possible he did meet and he mentioned this to documentary makers most likely keeping story going but do we know is this just random meeting shortly conversation and that's it ..I'm sure it won't count for much of outcome of thr cold case review...unless its more significant...



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,008 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Damned no matter what happened really. If he really didn't remember meeting her, which he said that publicly, and then remembered that he had, those wanting to lynch him would have had a field day. They seem quite happy to hand him over to the french with no evidence, I wouldn't be in a rush to change my story. Some timing for all this to come out after he dies.



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