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Ian Bailey RIP - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    The only issue I have with that is the gate in the lane was not Sophie's gate . It was a common gate used by the 3 houses and their visitors.

    It may be none of Sophie's business if someone was at the gate. It could be the Richardsons arriving for Christmas. It could be visitors to Alfie And Shirley or trades people or deliveries to the other houses there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Granted yes at time of year and it also being a Monday , last few business days before Christmas. But it might suggest that if nothing was happening or just noticed unusual car/activity or she recognised the car maybe she then became inclined to go down gate.

    Agree it might be neighbours and or not. But other alternative is the attacker drove th car then up laneway also.

    We are aware Lyons residence are saying they were up at 8. They haven't indicated of any deliveries or other activities of that nature or if any neighbours were confirmed be in the other house...

    If visitor was known to Sophie then she knew the car..and or seen them coming onto lane..



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Mackinac


    Did Alfie Lyons and Marie Farrell know each other?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,865 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Killer likely came by car at that hour amybe to collect something (from the pumphouse?). The wine boittle was most likely thrown from a speeding car as they got away and probably believed it would shatter and nver be found.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,808 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I cant get my head around how Shirley continued with her plans to go to the dump a few hours after discovering the body and how was she allowed go . Most people would be a wreck after discovering a murdered body near their home.

    How did the gardai allow her to go to the dump in the car that drove through the crime scene and how was she in a fit state to drive to the dump alone. She should have been treated as a suspect. Im not saying that she had anything to do with the murder but her behaviour still does not make sense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Soze14


    Psychologist here. Terms like narcissist and psychopath are too often thrown out by people who are unqualified to diagnose. First rule of thumb, even when fully qualified: you cannot diagnose someone you’ve never met. Extensive structured interviews and use of validated psychometric tests are essential, as well as in person observation. Seems like everyone’s an armchair expert these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Soze14


    As far as I’m aware the blocks were used to keep the gate closed or open and forensic evidence indicated that blood was sprayed onto a block beside the deceased’s head, rather than there being any indication that a block was used as a weapon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Good points. And thanks for the input.

    Whilst I, (as a lyman) could never see the justification for classing Bailey as a psycopath, it seems to me that his constant attention seeking is suggestive of narcissism ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's conflicting information about it, the block would have had to have been moved during the attack, because otherwise how could it come to rest on the dressing gown.

    This is an excerpt from an account in the Irish Times:

    He (Dr Harbison) identified two possible weapons near the body: "Beside the deceased's left shoulder and head was a flat slate like a stone which was heavily blood stained . . . Between the deceased's body and the wire fence and within 9in of her left hand was a 9in cavity block."

    The block rested on the dead woman's blue dressing gown, and appeared to have been taken from a hut built around an electric water pump, 20-30ft further up the hill. Dr Harbison mentions two blows on the dead woman's shoulder blades. "These could have been the imprints of that block, administering a glancing blow," he wrote. The body did not appear to have been dragged over the ground.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/a-brutal-death-in-black-and-white-1.922863

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,258 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    On the other hand you could say his chosen career relied on the public and getting a name for himself - reporters don’t tend to be shrinking violets - they need to be putting themselves out there- and when his career as a reporter in IrelAnd finished before it began, he relied on one of the few things he could- his notoriety- in order to make a few quid, be it selling poetry t shirts or rudey items

    Had he the skills of an artist I’d say he would have sold a lot of paintings as there would have been a certain level of grotesque demand to own a “Bailey”



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    How do you think Sophie's night clothes were under the bloodstained block when she was found.

    What forensic evidence is there that blood was sprayed onto the block?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There was in interview in the Sunday Independent last weekend with a retired UK forensics officer Bridget Chappuis:

    The pattern of blood staining on the block does not support the view that it was used as a weapon. Rather, blood pattern analysis tends to indicate that it was in situ when she was bleeding and that her body was leaning or lying against it, causing voids on the surface which are free of blood.

    But it doesn't account for how the clothes were under the block.

    More here - favours a morning time for the murder and use of a vehicle.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121721090/#Comment_121721090

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Do we have evidence the block was at gate a number of months or years? Not disputing it didn't come from pump house but I'm suggesting the killer didn't fetch it during the actual attack..he just used it for whatever purpose during or after attack.

    Isn't this more the question we need was it removed during the attack...if so...it's lot further reasoning attacker knew the ground and or really wanted inflict extreme injuries by fetching it on way up or way back down from the house



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The block \ pumphouse is a conundrum... seems like the obvious thing to have done was to ask Alfie \ Shirley whether the block was in situ at the gate for a period. Without that answer we are left guessing.

    The pump house was damaged, clear photos showing that. How and why is unclear. If it happened before the murder, can't imagine Sophie would be pleased about that, and it seems like the kinda thing she would have had Josephine Hellen sort if she was aware of it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    This is true and surely Josephine Hellen would have alluded to this in her statement if she had known this became damaged..


    I'm just wondering where lot of posts was mentioned Sophie's hurried trip just before Christmas to fix heating.. and she didn't entrust that to Hellen or was any of that damage caused number of months previous and/or the damage had affected water pump/heating of house but unlikely maybe.

    It leaves the killer knowing the area sustainability more to level of location of pumphouse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,684 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    The Gardai not sealing the scene of the crime properly didn't help in this regard imv



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It’s obvious from the photos of the gate that a block or stone is not needed to hold it open. If you look at the open gate you will see sheep wire on the bottom rungs which drags on the ground and grass by the wall keeping the gate open. A block would not be used to keep the gate closed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭tibruit


    No gate is safe with sheep, hence the sheep wire which is there to prevent lambs getting through the lower rungs. Sheep are notorious scratchers too, particularly if they haven`t been treated for scab. It would only have taken one incident of a local coming to a gate that was half opened across the laneway because sheep had been scratching against it, to grab a block to help secure it either open or closed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    Am I reading this right? There were fresh tyre marks were they ever measured to match a type of car etc or did the car going to the dump contaminate it??



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Tear the roof up off a pump house 20 yards away for a block to keep a gate open. A bit of rage against the gate you think?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I`d say a good southerly gale at some point lifted the roof.



  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Chocolatier


    Narcissists are notorious parasites, leeching off everyone, whereas Bailey was quite industrious: cutting trees, killing turkeys, gardening, selling stuff in the market, carving willies.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,677 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    The pictures that were up (from Reddit) tell me that it was an amateur who 'roofed' that shed. A good gale would easily disrupt it as would a bit of strength. Certainly didn't need to be a big hulking male to lift it. Also, doesn't seem to be much mortar involved.



  • Posts: 0 Ethan Putrid Cane


    Could we imagine a scenario where a car arrived, driver beeped horn to alert Sophie OR Alphie as they somehow could not get the gate open for some reason. One beep mightn’t have caused alert, as many give a salutary beep when departing, but a repeated thinking of the horn might have alerted Sophie who came down to investigate. I imagine somebody very probably arrived in a car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,258 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Anything’s possible - a car horn though would alert all people- not just the person you’d wish to attract attention by using the car horn.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And didnt someone mention Alfie didnt hear Shirley blowing the car horn when she spotted body on the ground...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    This is very true if arriving in car, but furthermore it might've not needed be horn to alert Sophie. For example maybe if she was in upstairs or downstairs her house has no blinds or curtains it was said so clear view out. She was up that morning her bed was maid so possibly it would be relatively easy if she writing at upstairs window and see car lights on at gate...or car lights coming slowly up road to gate..or if kitchen maybe too if she has that view from there. It was mentioned her outside light was not on .so possibly lot easier see another light down lane..if it's realistic to think it happened that way. But few single horns may not be heard but repeated horns seems unlikely.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3 WhiteHonda


    Regarding lack of forensic

    In Tipperary in 1997 a man was murdered. 

    Beaten on head probably with an iron bar. Seen alive 2.30 am, found dead 7.30am

    Harbison was on time. No forensic evidence was found to link the man acquitted. Weapon was never found 

    I don't know who killed Sophie but lack of forensic doesn't seem unusual.



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