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parkrun, lap two

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    #992
    Reg'stoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Reg'stoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739893#Comment_121739893

    My last comment on this, as we're not after hours, but lets be honest here, nobody runs with a M or F emblazoned across their chest, nobodies barcode identifies their gender to the scanner, so if someone for their own personal mental health wants to see a particular gender beside their result, well I personally have no problem with that. I've more of an issue with the people who have never volunteered.



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    #993
    gar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭gar


    From parkrun.com news section

    You may have noticed some changes to how we display statistics and data across parkrun websites and we wanted to explain what is changing and why.


    As parkrun has grown over the years we have made many changes to our digital communication including things such as layout, design, imagery and the language we use – and will continue to do so as we evolve.


    We try hard to make sure the information we share is consistent with our values, and that, in all that we do, we continue to find ways to remove barriers to registration and participation.


    We know that our websites are an important source of information for all parkrunners, especially those who are new and yet to take part, and we therefore established a global working group to consider how we can present data in a way that is not off-putting and doesn’t imply that parkrun is a race.


    This project covered parkrun’s global website, national websites and event websites for both 5k and junior parkrun and considered feedback from a range of people including those who had signed up with parkrun but not participated, those who had participated once, and from a range of regular participants. This project group has spent many months now making detailed investigations and recommendations.


    What was clear is that there was a disconnect between the performance data displayed so prominently on the site, and our mission to create opportunities for as many people as possible to take part in parkrun events - especially those who are anxious about activities such as parkrun, but who potentially have an enormous amount to gain.


    Based on the conclusions and recommendations of the project group, we will no longer publish data such as most first finishes, sub 17 men and sub 20 women, and age grade or category speed records. Alongside these, as part of our ongoing data protection improvements, the search function has been removed.


    Your personalised results email and your individual profile pages will remain unchanged, as will the results pages for every event. The event history page will also stay the same, including the ‘sort’ function at the top that allows data to be displayed in different ways.


    As we work towards the objectives set out in our five year strategy we’ll continue to take steps to ensure that everyone is able to enjoy parkrun for what it is: a free community event and an opportunity to be active, social and outside in a non-competitive, inclusive and welcoming environment

    Looks like to make it less intimidating... I was never going finish first but great seeing others results



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    #994
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,225 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Official response.

    https://www.parkrun.com/blog/news/2024/02/08/changes-to-statistics-on-the-parkrun-websites/?fbclid=IwAR1zV7T0ic8SdYVnWFAosKfQdgpA5SOuA6UnI9pH8LoKVKC0fYfcODkLXqM

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #995
    DeepBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    parkrun appear to be saying - if you're a fast runner then we don't want you and we'll remove any of the incentives that bring you to parkrun. A retrograde step.



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    #996
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741215#Comment_121741215

    What incentives? A time is a time. You're only competing against your own PT if you're even competing at all. Fast =/= competitive.



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    #997
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741226#Comment_121741226

    But you could compete against the times that other people had previously set for age/ gender, or use that as a guide to the difficulty of a course.



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    #998
    Duzzie
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Duzzie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738308#Comment_121738308

    Agree 100%. To me the biggest thing putting off newcomers that I have come across is the name. Ive heard from so many people say that they wouldnt do parkrun because they can't run. I very much doubt that someone considering taking part for the first time, apart from a seasoned runner, would be looking at course records or attendance records



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    #999
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738929#Comment_121738929

    Its possible to enjoy the social side, and want to run fast(er). That would be the case with most parkrunners I know.

    Its taboo now to dare question any part of transgender ideology, so plenty of people will feel they cant publicly address this change.

    Most people I know are still keen to know their parkrun time, and will compare it with their garmin/strava time, and previous times. Its possible to be interested in the stats, and in having a chat with regulars and new people.

    From looking at my own times, if was to change gender, there are parkruns where I could go from 16th Male to 1st Female. Its a bit of stretch to say anyone would do this on purpose, but statistically, biological males clearly have an advantage.

    The main losers here are women who know they can't beat the fastest men, but want to compare themselves with other women in their category. If that means allowing a tiny number of transgender in the womens category, its probably a better outcome than what's happened now.



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    #1000
    Duzzie
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Duzzie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741731#Comment_121741731

    parkrun have denied that it is anything to do with transgender athletes



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    #1001
    Sandwell
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Removing the course records seems to me like a fairly uncontroversial move as well as one that might allow them to sidestep the British media's obsession with trans people.

    Not sure why the attendance records are seen as potentially off-putting though? Would knowing a Parkrun regularly draws hundreds rather than dozens really make a difference to a newcomer?



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    #1002
    Sandwell
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741226#Comment_121741226

    Agreed. I'd be a fast(ish) runner and a regular first finisher in some of my local Parkruns and I couldn't care less about any of this. If I'm looking for a yardstick to compare myself to other runners around my age category I'll use a quality road race or championship event.



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    #1003
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741747#Comment_121741747

    I think we can read between the lines and know what prompted this change, and can understand why they’d say that. Avoid the culture wars and all that.

    this stuff was in the Uk press a bit before this decision

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/10766039/parkruns-womens-record-runner-was-jailed/

    there was a lot about it in December 2023:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2023/dec/29/rightwing-thinktank-female-only-categories-uk-grassroots-sport



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    #1004
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Can't see any benefits to this move from Parkrun. Like, at all. For me part of the fun of Parkrun is all the data they provide. A retrograde step, as said above.



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    #1005
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    In international competitive sports there is currently a massive pushback in relation to the whole gender self id issue, with an ever increasing list of sporting bodies stamping out this practice in favour (of what went before 2015), that is ..... men participating in the mens events & women in the women's events. For example in swimming, Lia Thomas cannot anymore compete as a woman. Other codes like cycling rowing & rugby are also on board as the pushback continues. Ex & current athletes around the world are fighting hard to get the gender issue back under control, based on biology & not feelings/ideology.

    Parkrun it seems, as a non competitive, fully inclusive, community based, get fit - fun event, are just doing their own thang 😃



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    #1006
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Again, this is going to be more of a UK problem than an Ireland problem, but I'm worried that Parkruns are going to be ruined by protests.

    The 5K app will probably step in and keep those lost statistics anyway.

    Post edited by flazio on


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    #1007
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Seems very much like trying to apply solutions to problems that aren't there. It's like parkrun is trying to be everything to everyone. Parkrun seems to be focussing on the back of the pack and telling the front runners that they aren't important anymore.

    I'm disappointed to see the course records and first finishers gone from my local parkrun's page.



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    #1008
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Parkrun Drama - Conor

    https://youtu.be/sVRIBGljvcc?si=YCi2_TkvqQOctE05



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    #1009
    CassieManson
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭CassieManson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121743568#Comment_121743568

    They have also removed the ability to search for other parkrunners



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    #1010
    Duzzie
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Duzzie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744257#Comment_121744257

    You still seem to be able to search for parkrunners through the friends section on the 5k app. For now anyway



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    #1011
    CassieManson
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭CassieManson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741747#Comment_121741747

    If it is related to transgender athletes they will also have to remove the male and female first finisher references



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    #1012
    Dubh Geannain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741215#Comment_121741215

    We'd someone visit the local parkrun just last week to set the course record. I'm not sure who was dis-incentivised by the previous setup but there will certainly be competitive runners dis-incentivised now. Some bring a lot of welcome attention to the runs. Mageean's record at the end of last year for example made me aware of Belfast Victoria and I'd be adding it to my run list if I happen to be in Belfast some weekend. And I know about kids (my own included) that looked at the age category records and it has sparked their interest/got them talking about it. It's not the end of the world and it's a voluntary free event at the end of the day but it seems unnecessary to me. Parkrun has been going from strength to strength.



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    #1013
    simonw
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭simonw


    They have also removed the "Most events" page, which as a bit of a parkrun tourist, was the only one of the cross-event reports I ever looked at. Very disappointing, as that only has the count of different events you've done in that country, nothing to do with how fast you did them.



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    #1014
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The deletion of attendance records is really odd. Guessing for no other reason than to try and distract from the deletion of the age/ category records.

    Can't think of any inclusivity reason for hiding attendance records.



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    #1015
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,225 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Laytown confirmed for kick off on March 2.

    https://www.parkrun.ie/laytownbeach/

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #1016
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,140 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746732#Comment_121746732

    The attendance records were quite competitive at one point and probably still are among some people. So, while I'd question the value of some of these changes as well, I think they are all consistent with what they say they're doing. Incidentally, they admitted in an email to the event teams that they fecked up with the way this was handled. Making the change without telling the event teams and allowing it to become linked to the gender issue was a big mistake on their part imo.



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    #1017
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752650#Comment_121752650

    Competitive between event teams possibly, but can't see how that affects potential new parkrunners in any way. If they don't like big crowds then don't go to Bushy Park, or if they do want the anonymity then do. But knowing that on Christmas day in year X they had 2000+ people turn up makes no difference.


    They are trying desperately to claim that it's nothing to do with the gender issue, but Xweets from the likes of PSH would suggest otherwise (even though he's got little to do with it anymore other than being one of the public faces). He at least seems to think it's related reasons.

    One thing that parkrun HQ are reliably good at is making a mess of any communication around changes.



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    #1018
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,140 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752746#Comment_121752746

    Sorry, I thought you were referring to the individual attendance records. So, yeah I'd agree event records are a strange one. On the gender issue, it's a different policy that hasn't changed since last year. Event results are still reported by gender, and you can still find the gender records for each event if you know where to look.



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    #1019
    Reg'stoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Reg'stoy


    Anyone else having issues with their runs not counting towards their VHI rewards, I've 5 done this year but only 3 have been counted, one being the New Years day run which along with Xmas day wasn't recorded.



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    #1020
    CassieManson
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭CassieManson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766773#Comment_121766773

    As far as I'm aware they don't count the specials eg Christmas Day or New Year's day. They also don't count those outside the country.



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    #1021
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    New year did eventually turn up for me but Christmas didn't.



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