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France v Ireland 8pm Freeday Feb 2 24 rte two.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭This is it


    The yellow was given for collapsing the maul, and was coming whether the try was given or not. The director continued to show the maul going down rather than what the TMO wanted, which was the grounding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Head contact with power and at height is always a card. Willemse had no mitigation. He cost France and perhaps should have been red carded for the 1st offense. What's so difficult for players to get it? The coaches must be losing their minds. Willemse is a decent player with lots of experience, you'd assume after the 1st incident that he'd play with some caution. France cannot complain, it's poor form and technique. They missed Flament in this match and maybe should have started Woki. Woki at least gives them a very good target for line outs.

    Watching it back, it's nice to see McCarthy and VDF make absolute scutter of the rucks. Lucu had a tough day, not his fault. Our counter rucking was superb. Danty and Fickou were completely at sea in defense. Very unusual to see them both perform poorly. Our pack dominated and gave us the platform.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    We agree. The laws will have to change as the cards experiment has failed. On the other hand it’s been a roaring success at reducing marquee games to uneven number of players. Including Leinster vs La Rochelle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Lord Palmerston


    You talk about that like it’s an equivalent problem - like there’s a certain amount of brain injuries that should be considered acceptable to avoid spoiling the ‘spectacle’.

    I would argue that head contact has clearly reduced over the past few years - there are still incidents obviously (and there almost always will be a certain amount), but there is nowhere near as many as there was about 5 years ago.

    If anything - they need to be a bit stricter and more consistent in carding these. Willemse’s first hit was a clear and blatant red card. There should be zero mitigation for Porter dipping slightly in a scenario where Willemse was always illegal (no attempt to wrap).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭TheRona


    I can't understand the uproar about the penalty against Crowley for taking out Fickou. Fickou was in the air in a position to catch with both hands, and Crowley was hardly off the ground, with an arm flapping in the air.

    The player in the vulnerable position who is actually trying to catch the ball should always be protected. I think they're way too lenient on players who aren't actually even trying to catch the ball, just attempting to get a hand up and tap it back.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Lord Palmerston


    Crowley was as high off the ground as he needed to be (seeing as he succeeded in getting an hand to it) and had eyes on the ball.

    If anything - it’s Mauvaka who is probably most culpable for taking out Fickou. He just clatters into the situation with no attempt to play the ball.

    The frustration with the refereeing of the incident is that Dickson sees it in real time and clearly doesn’t deem it foul play and tells the French players multiple times “fair contest”. He then completely reverses the decision purely on Whitehouse’s say so without reviewing. It was a significant moment - the difference was between an Irish lineout 5-10m from the French line or the opposite. He should at a minimum have reviewed it.

    His handling of a multitude of incidents was as favourable as possible to the French - he missed both of Willemse’s hits in real time, he gave Atonio the benefit of the doubt for belly flopping but penalised Porter instantly, he gave Ireland free kicks for French scrum indiscretions versus penalising Ireland, he refused to review the Danty deliberate knock on when implored to do so, he made an extremely questionable decision on the field to call Gabrillague’s “try” a try and then ignored when it patently wasn’t.

    Those are all significant incidents and would have been decisive if Ireland weren’t so much better. Ireland have a right to expect better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,322 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland




  • Subscribers Posts: 41,202 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    The Crowley v ficou incident was replayed a few times on the stadium screens. I thought it actually had been reviewed by the tmo?

    For what it's worth, I though it was mauvaka that caused the damage



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 wherever


    It would be great in Croke Park but might require an online graphic artist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,776 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Couple of things that warmed the heart outside of the match.

    McCarthy celebrating with his family. Lovely

    And Henderson in the warm up with McCarthy. He couldn’t have been more sincere in his support in the drills.

    I know we usually hear this type of stuff but to see the encouragement he was giving him showed the spirit in the group.

    Fair play to Henderson.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,229 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    My wife, who's new to rugby, asked me yesterday why France were packing down in a really compact formation while Ireland were really loose and wide at the scrum. I had no idea.

    Anyone know why there's such a big discrepancy there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Was this during Willemses' YC absence or after his 2nd YC, when France would have had to adjust their scrum ?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,229 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    In the second half. I think Alldritt must have been in the row and maybe Danty at flanker?



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    World Rugby use simple illustrations on their website.

    For example

    Theses graphics provide an authorised & standardised source



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Mauvaka contacts Crowley when Crowley is off the ground. This prevents Crowley from avoiding contact with Fickou. Both contacts are penalisable offences but the effect of Crowley's contact on Fickou was more noticeable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭letowski


    Watching back the game, it can’t really be understated how big of an asset Lowe’s left boot is for Ireland. It’s just such a weapon. I taught Lowe was arguably the most influential player on the field in the first 30, he continually pinned France in their own half and secured Ireland territory.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,229 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Just looking back at the first scrum on 20 minutes and the French pack are fairly wide as well.the front row is straight while Ireland are completely triangular with both props at 45 degree angles before the ball is even put in. I'm not sure what causes that but it looks physical impossible to win a scrum shaped like that.

    When they adjust later, the French are much narrower and it looks like it would be more stable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,931 ✭✭✭✭phog


    His kick immediately after Crowley's kick was blocked down cost is 40/50m, some of it down to a poor kick and some down to poor defense



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ireland still conceding far too many penalties. Change that and all will be well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Don't remember whether Danty was involved in all scrums. Perhaps France scrum 'long' rather than 'wide' , ie; where flankers are less involved in assisting props. Would need a scrum specialist opinion here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,829 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Lowe's kick at the end of this clip is one of the best I've seen in years.

    From 22 to 22 essentially. Relieved any pressure that may have been on our defence. Did it all night really. One of his finest games for Ireland.




  • Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭conncussed


    I definitely remember Danty packing down on the left flank at least once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    S. Edward's will be livid! What a very poor effort by France in defense and at the breakdown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Irish fans amaze me. Ireland play a great game away from home, France have a player sent off and Ireland win by 21 points. Yet the ref was incompetent, corrupt, a clown, France's 16th man, a homer. Amazing 😂

    If the second French try had been ruled out, I think it should have been a penalty try and YC against JGP. Would have been a better outcome for the French.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭fitz


    It's not the cards that have failed imo, it's the lack of sufficient consequence afterwards.

    Make bans significantly longer and players will change behavior. At the moment, the risk/reward calculation of hitting a bit higher isn't enough to discourage the kind of hits they're trying to eliminate, I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭conncussed


    I disagree that they've utterly failed. We've seen a reduction in head contacts at the same time as players have become bigger and defenses have become more far more aggressive. Most games I watch have very limited accidental head contact and the players are typically sanctioned for them. If we continued playing and officiating the way we did five years ago we'd have players smashing eachother in the head every ten minutes.

    Most teams I watch have clearly worked hard to de-risk head contacts in order to avoid red/yellow cards.

    Do we need to get the focus back on reducing dangerous head contact? Definitely, but that doesn't mean there haven't major positive changes from cards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    "Irish fans amaze me"

    All Irish fans, or just some ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    This whole french director conspiracy theory needs to die. The TMO has 2 or 3 operators sitting beside him who have full access to all cameras and angles and can load up whatever is requested. It was obviously just a miscommunication with the operator. Not some biased French director refusing to show the clip.


    On screen tv replays is a different story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭ersatz


    They haven’t failed, or at least we can’t say they’ve failed definitively because we can’t know how bad the number of head shots would be without them, I suspect they would have continued to increase. As players have gotten bigger and faster the tucked shoulder upright hit became a far more appealing defensive tactic, before the reds came in that was becoming an essential part of the game, it has become far less common. The second thing to think about is basic discipline. Some teams are getting a lot of reds for head contact and some aren’t. England, while they’ve been sh1t, have shipped a lot of reds for head contact, Ireland hardly any. I’d be interested to see stats across teams. For me this is a basic discipline issue and it comes back to coaching and consequences.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Lowe was magnificent imo

    Watched Italy v England earlier today. Italy were unlucky. Busy watching Wales v Scotland. Wales are really diabolical, but hard to pass judgement on Scotland ( played 36 minutes ).



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