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Rental cost-where will it stop?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,782 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    For someone to inherit, someone had to be the 1st generation that became wealthy in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    So strange that so many new joiners to Boards are commenting on one property section thread. You would nearly think there was one person joining multiple times.

    Funny comment as I know loads of people without generational wealth that have things you think are from generational wealth. Friend's parents were factory worker and a stay a home mother with no income. Of there 5 kids 4 are bank managers and one a teacher. According to you that doesn't happen and these people are conspiring to keep people poor. Maybe everyone you knew didn't get a higher education and didn't do better than their parents. Who are you blaming for not doing better for themselves? It appears you are blaming the people who bettered themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭JVince


    and move to where?

    London? - Higher prices

    Paris - always on strike and high prices

    Amsterdam - High prices

    Lisbon - Crazy high prices

    Munich - Prices gone crazy too.


    We simply need to build build build. Far too many tracts of land awaiting rezoning (Newlands) or have very low density industrial buildings - (it has taken 20 years for the dublin ind est in Glasnevin to get clearance for residential development. That's just crazy



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    You could save up and buy a BMW, if thats what floats your boat.


    its got nothing to do with the cost of Rent in Dublin though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    I agree with you. People are stuck and forced into paying rents where I would struggle myself tbh. I don’t know how some can afford it. There is no getting away from that as it is expensive and you’re right. It’s hard to save if you don’t have money left over at the end of the month.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    The yield on the stock market is 8-10pc pa so when someone is deciding on where to put their money. They will ask themselves. Why put my money in housing unless I can at least get a good rate vs the stock market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Shannonsurfer101


    Ray, your understanding of my professional career is so widely off the mark I’m going to park that part of the conversation. 

    The funding model can start with investors brining 50% cash to the table the remaining buy to let mortgage can cover the balance, keep the repayments manageable. If you can’t manage that, look to invest elsewhere. 

    Ray what’s your opinion on the current rental market? 



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    No investor would ever consider such a strategy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I never said anything about your career other than I doubt you are an an architect given your complete lack of understanding of finances of rental purchases.

    You still haven't answered my first question! Who is going to take your terrible financial ideas?

    As a farmer are you going to buy a field with a mortgage and sell the crop produced at a loss until you own the field and then sell it for a profit 25 years later? Does that make business sense to you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    That is caused by the rent controls we have in Ireland now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭SharkMX




  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    I read recently (in Monday's Examiner I think) that there has been an increase in elderly people being evicted from rental accommodation.

    To mitigate against this, wouldn't it be better to repossess houses that are in mortgage default in order to speed up the velocity of transactions in the property sector?

    That way, defaulters could become renters (as they should) and renters (including elderly renters) would have a chance to become buyers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Would elderly renters be able to outbid other, younger buyers? Also, I doubt there is any prospect of this , or any other Government making it easier for banks to eject families from their homes. They should, but it will not happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    An increase in velocity in property sales would be good for anyone who wants to buy a house. But to answer your question, I suppose it would depend on their individual circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    If an elderly person had the cash to buy a home, it’s unlikely they would be renting, and no lender would provide a mortgage to an elderly person.

    Velocity?



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    True on both counts. But nonetheless, an increase in property sales would make it easier for people of all ages to buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I doubt the volume of repossessions would have any meaningful effect, and may actually accentuate the problem by making more people homeless. The sight of families being dragged from their homes is not a vista any politician wants to be seen to encourage. There would also be no guarantee that a bank would sell to a someone in need of a home, nor could the State stipulate that it be sold on a need basis.

    I do agree with you that people should absolutely not be allowed to continue to live for years in a property they have ceased paying for, I think more lenders would enter the market and improve competitiveness if hey saw that they could recover the collateral on their loan relatively quickly in cases of non payment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    Rewarding default is not conducive to the construction or sale of houses. Yes it is terrible to see families being dragged out of their homes but it is just as harrowing if the family is renting their home as opposed to buying it, so that argument cancels itself out.

    I think it is a safe bet the bank would sell the house on the open market and there are a lot of of people in need of a home on the open market. Or it would be so to someone who wants to rent it out which would increase the velocity in the rental market, increasing choice and reducing rent. All good, if homelessness is your concern.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Sorry, no, wanting to buy rather than rent does not have the same optics as a family being dragged from their repossessed home. The repossession is far more emotive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    I have yet to meet anyone who "wanted" to rent. They do so because they have no other choice. More houses on the market and greater velocity in house sales would give them a choice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    That is extremely unlikely you never met a person who wants to rent. If we extend that out it means every college student renting want to buy instead of renting. It also means every person want to buy the instant they leave home and tie themself down to one location. Just a little bit of thought makes your statement ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Hawkeye123


    Let's put it another way. People like living in houses. They don`t like paying for things. Therefore people prefer ownership to renting something they don't own.

    Post edited by Hawkeye123 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    so now nobody wants live or own an apartment? They are paying for something, accommodation in a place they can't buy. Many people don't want to decide on a permanent home when younger and want the freedom of renting. If you don't think that is true you are living in a different world to me. Renting has it's place or it would never exist anywhere. To think it is never wanted is the weirdest things I have heard



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭baldbear


    It's basic supply and demand.

    The governments utter failure to actually build and retain housing in the states name is a massive joke.

    Instead we have them allowing international funds buy up stock and then enter long term arrangements with the government to house social tenants/pay HAP. The tax payer is being rode sideways. The government is keeping rents high by throwing cash at investment funds.

    I saw a story this week where a house seized by CAB was auctioned off. A accommodation investment group (Chinese) bought house and I bet they state will end up paying HAP on this house. What a utter farce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭musicfan1ie


    Simple answer to why issue has not been resolved is that the government is loving the tax take and public blame landlords. I know that not all landlords have mortgages / bought at low rates, but a lot of other people are in jobs and have rental income as extra, so all their rental income is taxed at 50%. So, government is taking a large chunk (after deductions). Rent goes up EUR3K a year, government takes EUR1.5K. So the government is benefitting from peoples misery.

    Before breakages, replacements, tenants missing rent etc, I'm always left with paying the tax liability from my savings, I'd be f**ked if I had no savings. Plus side, long term I'm earning equity per year, though interest rates have nearly killed that too.

    Also, value wise my apartment is about same price as I paid for it 18 years ago - so no capital value either. Not exactly a lucrative investment, but I'd be considered a scumbag landlord!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    It's worse for tenants than that. It is very unlikely any landlord is going to buy a property that was previously rented out in any RPZ area as you would be tied to the previous landlord's rental rate. So what is much more likely is an owner/occupier will buy which sounds great to some. What that most likely means is less people will occupy the property than were renting as people rent for the present and use all the available room where people buy for the future where they see themselves having children.

    So there are more people looking to rent and there is less to rent available. Estate agents came out and said 70% of their 2nd hand property sales last year were former rental properties. Meanwhile we have the OP trying to come up with a scheme where more landlords will sell up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Not just a scumbag you are also raking it in . The OP here won't even work out how much profit a landlord makes before deciding on how much they should be ALLOWED charge. You can't argue with somebody who just think people will be suppliers of a service at a loss because they want it cheaper. They aren't open to discussion they are telling you what they want and don't care how or if it is achievable



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Johnnyvegas221


    Why don't you sell up then and put your money into dividend stocks. I'm sure an owner occupier would gladly purchase your home and live in it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Great suggestion - thats why the number of landlords and tenancies is falling at a time when rental prices are booming - they are taking your advice. This might be OK for the investor, and OK for the buyer, but its not OK for everyone left in the rental market where there is already a lack of supply.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Again as I said previously, it goes back to the amount of tax state takes from the landlord. State bears no risk at all! Landlord holds all the risk but takes less profit. If the state would lower the tax perhaps we could see lower rents.

    Someone here said oh no... It is like working a second job so why not be taxed the same. Well it is not like working a second job as not as much risk involved in working a second job as renting out your most expensive asset.

    Living the life



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