Will Hurling separate from the GAA to form its own body sooner rather than later?

evolvingtipperary101 · 09-11-2023 9:09pm #1

Is the increasing separation of football and hurling, or more importantly, how headquarters at Croke Park and RTE view hurling going to lead to a separation of hurling from the GAA?

The split seems to be getting wider and wider.

The GAA's Central Competitions Control Committee is recommending that any county with fewer than five adult hurling teams should compete in the fifth-tier Lory Meagher Cup only from 2025 onwards.

If Central Council passes the recommendation, it would see Cavan, Fermanagh, Leitrim, Longford and Louth confined to the competition, reducing their inter-county season from six to three months. Louth are the only one of the counties that will play above Lory Meagher level this year. County boards are accepting of this without taking hurling clubs and hurlers opinions?

The other three months would see an increased focus placed on hurling development on those counties. Packages will be put in place to help raise the number of adult hurlers and teams in those counties. More coaches will be provided to schools and clubs, with a number of start-up grants available. This feels like reusing an old Band-Aid that hasn't been working...

The CCCC says that once these counties are in a position to field five or more adult teams for a period of three years, they will be readmitted to the National Hurling League, where they currently compete in Division 3A and Division 3B.

An attempt to reduce hurling to three months in these counties looks like an attempt to kill off hurling in these counties - with no real plan to revive it. In essence, the committed hurlers in these counties are being cut off to a very short calendar and shorn of funding. No players or clubs were consulted - it's a decision being handed down. How can you revive hurling in a county without a flagship team to follow? Who is going to train/commit for a three month calendar? Who is going to support a team with these narratives swarming around hurling in the county? Hurling is dying in these counties and the plan is to reduce the amount of games and hurling for the flagship teams? Makes no sense to me.

Still no director of hurling at Croke Park? Hoe many hurling voices on the CCCC?

Hurling's minnows could be confined to Lory Meagher Cup (rte.ie)

Asdfgh2020 · 09-11-2023 11:00pm

Will never happen……it’s more centralised the gaa is going to become as opposed to sections breaking away eg Camogie and ladies football are scheduled to come under the overall gaa umbrella

C4000 · 10-11-2023 12:23am

Unbelievable recommendation from the CCCC. I was at the Division 3B final this year. It was a great occasion. Obviously not a huge crowd at it, but there were 400-500 people who are part of a community that are keeping hurling alive in counties like Leitrim and Cavan. It meant a huge amount to the Cavan players to win that cup.

This proposal is a slap in the face to the people who are passionate about hurling in these counties and to the players who persevere with the sport.

The county boards appear not to care and seem to be happy to sacrifice any pretense at supporting hurling in favour of saving money.

evolvingtipperary101 · 10-11-2023 3:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121349156#Comment_121349156

It's almost like the GAA has been infiltrated by MI6 with a directive to extinguish hurling. I know that's ridiculous. I know it's much more about how football is more popular, a less expensive sport, easier to pick up for children and RTE see football as much more marketable to a wider audience, possibly an international audience in the future, but if we don't fight this, they'll succeed. We've seen under the hood of RTE recently, it's full of self-serving people - we need our national, oldest game to be protected and not the victim of people searching for a cash cow. I just wonder who is being hired at headquarters in croke park and why... these decisions are baffling ( and how is RTE holding such sway... )

That the Wexford motion, proposed by Liam Griffin, that all clubs should be required to provide an underage hurling team was defeated, securing only 34.6% support tells its own tale. Hurling is in big, big trouble. It won't be long before football people will be so powerful in the org and around the boards of counties that the pressure and twist in the hurling strongholds will come. They're really succeeding at strangling hurling in Ulster. Connacht is dead in the water. Leinster is next...

Leitrim hurling captain Martin Feeney has condemned the plan to cut them and four other counties from the Allianz Hurling League as proof the GAA don’t care about the development of the game.

Feeney confirmed the hurling panel representatives in Leitrim, Cavan, Fermanagh, Longford and Louth convened a meeting on Wednesday night where they declared their unanimous opposition to the plan and determination to see it rejected at Central Council next month.

The players were not consulted on the proposal and only learned via the media of its emergence having been put forward this weekend by the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC).

“The fact we’re being told we will only have championship in 2025 and no Allianz League games to prepare, the GAA are cutting off the lower tier and leaving us in limbo,” lashed Feeney. “It’s a big thanks to the GAA for that.

“It just shows that they don’t give a crap really about the lower tiers. It means nothing to them. It shows no respect and all they care about is the money.

“All of the players from all five counties and the management teams are completely against the proposal. It’s of no benefit to the development of hurling or the hard work that’s been done in the counties. It’s a kick in the teeth, really.

“They will really kill off hurling in the counties and you will see a huge drop-off of players if they take away the league from the counties and reduce the season for them to three months.”

Feeney added: “What we intend to do now is all our players reps will coe together and link up closely with the Gaelic Players Association. You better believe we’re going to fight this proposal.”

The CCCC recommendation is for resources to be redirected to improving the game at club and under-age level in the counties but Feeney is sceptical. “It’s just a cost-cutting exercise dressed up as something else. All these counties are being asked to accept this policy when there is no concrete plan at all on how the money that’s saved would be spent. They list things as coaching and equipment but without a plan it’s not going to work.”

10-11-2023 1:16pm

A family member played for a county senior hurling team. The county would be a football first, second and third , anyway he'd tell me about how they'd have to tackle the county board for anything they needed and how county board officials would humiliate them by bringing them sandwiches while next room had the footballers getting the fine dining plus the official dining also . They might not get a field available to train on was another tactic This was and probably still is the way . That's a county board that are doing everything they can to stop hurling, so the GAA certainly have lots of helpers if destroying hurling in weaker county's was their aim.

evolvingtipperary101 · 10-11-2023 11:27pm

https://x.com/conorwhelan10/status/1722941183666667533?s=20

C4000 · 11-11-2023 12:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121353429#Comment_121353429

Fair play to Whelan. Hopefully momentum grows against this ludicrous proposal and it is defeated.

evolvingtipperary101 · 11-11-2023 3:10pm

Fermanagh captain Ryan Bogue, one of the longest serving inter-county hurlers having made his debut off the bench against Cavan in 2006, said he was gobsmacked when he was presented with the document explaining the possible changes.

"The whole thing seems to be made up and pulled out of the sky with no consideration put into it at all," he told RTÉ Sport.

"I wouldn't say I would be overly surprised. Over the last six, seven years, the treatment of hurling in counties like our own has definitely improved but previous to that you were always obviously second best in terms of privileges.

"I thought we had got past that but this is just back to that. Our county board is great, anything we want, we get, but this is coming from the top.

"The fact that the players who are playing the game have absolutely no control seems crazy to me.

"It worries me about how the ladies and camogie teams will be treated when the integration process is completed if this is how hurlers will be treated."

"When you take the amount of clubs in Fermanagh and take the ratio of hurling clubs to football clubs and then you go to Tyrone and do the same, Fermanagh is in a better place.

"Five counties, 25 players on each panel, so that’s 125 hurlers that will be without four or five games a year.

"I have a 10-year-old nephew [Callum] and he never misses a league game for us. What does that say to him?

"That young lad goes to watch those games but if we’re kicked out he’ll just go and watch five or six football games instead. That means he will become a footballer rather than a hurler.

"He’ll go watch Ultan Kelm and Darragh McGurn and will want to be them, he’s not going to want to be a Luca McCusker because he won’t see him. That’s how you kill off hurling in a county."

With the vote scheduled for December, Bogue is hoping that they can garner vocal support from the superpowers of the game to sway opinion.

"Nobody wants to give up their league games, it’s plain to be seen, but the only thing we can hope for is that the other big counties get behind us.

"The problem is that the people voting, a lot of them will not care about Fermanagh hurling, will not care about Cavan hurling. If there’s a game won they’ll never even know the result of it. You’re going to have some football-crazy lad hitting a button and he won’t even know what he is voting for.

"Hopefully the likes of Limerick, Tipperary and Cork will say ‘Jesus, those lads deserve to be hurling as much as anyone.’"

PeggyShippen · 11-11-2023 6:36pm

There's no doubt but Hurling and indeed camogie would be better off on their own. That's obvious. The GAA have failed to grow the game anywhere new since 1900. Same counties it was strong in then are the same now. No county north of the Galway -Dublin line has any chance .Antrim haven't progressed since 1989's high. There's so much that could be done. Ulster could have a decent Liam McCarthy team and there could be a Meath,Westmeath,Longford team. Even in the strong Counties there are pockets where there's little hurling...Galway city is brutal...Ennis ... most of Limerick City...ect .

I would love to see Hurling go and strike it out alone, wish the GAA all the best and focus on the game ...Take our pitches and come to an amicable agreement or non amicable..I dont care. Hurling is and has always been failed by the GAA.

Asdfgh2020 · 11-11-2023 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355915#Comment_121355915

there isn’t a snow balls chance in hell of what you are saying ever happening……and I hope it never does…..can you outline the apparent benefits it would bring…?

PeggyShippen · 13-11-2023 10:28am

My own club is hurling only and it allows excellence. The most successful club in the county since winning its first title in 1977.

Dual clubs get lauded . It does indeed take a herculean effort to be successful in both especially the likes of loughmore who have many Dual players. The reality is they could have been way more successful if they focused on hurling. They never made a dent in Munster.

Hurling is a completely different game than Gaelic Football. Why would they be under the same umbrella.

The administrators in the GAA are mainly Gaelic Football and aren't capable of promoting hurling.

Hurling could have much broader appeal if de coupled from Gaelic football. We could have a non political organisation minus the likes of Joe Brolly and the Republicans who've been trying to take over the GAA for 20 years

breezy1985 · 13-11-2023 2:22pm

From the Slaney to Kilkee, the game of hurling will be free 🤣

Asdfgh2020 · 13-11-2023 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361726#Comment_121361726

this kind of view/opinion is utter bollocks……hurling will never ‘break-away’ from the gaa umbrella and to be advocating that it Will/should is utterly delusional…..what benefit would accrue…? It’s like the brits voting for brexit

PeggyShippen · 14-11-2023 4:05pm

Check out the views of Liam Sheedy and Fogarty. They arent pushing a break away but they are saying hurling is in trouble and isn't being administered or marketed properly. The GAA have done a terrible job with hurling. The benefits are massive of spliting. All administration pulling in the one direction, a unity of purpose, dynamic leadership like a liam Sheedy. Its not in any way outlandish to state the obvious. Hurling needs to get away.

callaway92 · 14-11-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365148#Comment_121365148

I think this is slightly unfair

They are completely different sports. Like the Sunday Game doing Gaelic Football and Hurling, why don't Against The Head do Rugby and Soccer while they're at it?

An Ciarraioch · 14-11-2023 5:45pm

The greatest difficulty with the promotion and development of hurling is that acquiring the requisite skill sets to play the sport to the highest levels is significantly harder than is the case with Gaelic football, and as such, creating new strongholds for the game is very much a long-term project. Here for instance, Tralee Parnells launched in 2012 at underage levels with the aim of reviving hurling in the town, after it had largely become extinct for a number of decades, they progressed through the various grades, and it's only next year (2024) that they'll be in a position to play in the adult senior county championship. So, promoting hurling isn't impossible, but it very much needs to be a labour of love.

Asdfgh2020 · 14-11-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367658#Comment_121367658

Should track sports separate from field sports in the athletics world……or maybe the long jump should separate from the field events…?

C4000 · 14-11-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368370#Comment_121368370

Not a breakaway from the GAA, but dedicated hurling boards with a mandate to develop the sport would be welcome in some counties where hurling is presently given lip service at best or even in some cases actively suppressed.

callaway92 · 14-11-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368370#Comment_121368370

It’s called Track and Field. Not difficult to know why they’re groups together.

Widdensushi · 14-11-2023 11:16pm

Weaker counties should get the option of joining a conjoining county of weak to mid strength, making hurling more competitive overall, obviously there are logistics problems with traveling but probably a bigger obstacle would be the politics/ historical rivalry.

evolvingtipperary101 · 16-11-2023 9:10pm

"Currently in Fermanagh, we have Belleek and Lisnaskea now back playing adult hurling and I know the likes of Belnaleck, Ederney, Enniskillen, Knocks Grattans and Naomh Aodhan are all pushing to make it to the adult grades. I have no doubt that will happen sooner rather than later.

Let us not remove any hopes or dreams these young players have of wanting to pull on the county jersey and instead, invest in their aspirations and invest in their futures across the board.

Ultimately, we have to promote the game instead of chipping away at the base…when the base is weakened, a collapse is inevitable and where will we be then?!"

DSS Elite Coaching | Hurling….not just for everyone it seems – by Andrew Breslin (deelysportscience.com)

evolvingtipperary101 · 17-11-2023 11:09pm

'I've been around long enough to know these things don't happen by accident.'

Sambo believes the hurling money will go to football.

https://x.com/OurGameHQ/status/1725504977819345150?s=20

Donald Trump · 17-11-2023 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361726#Comment_121361726

The administrators in the GAA are mainly Gaelic Football and aren't capable of promoting hurling.

If the administrators are mainly Gaelic Football, that would be because the hurling lads weren't stepping up to the plate. If you believed that, then the worst possible thing would be to split and have only people who are reluctantly in positions

evolvingtipperary101 · 19-11-2023 11:03am

The news that the GAA intends to send five counties out of the Allianz Hurling League is only surprising because a lot of people seem to be surprised.

The GAA has long been gaslighting people about hurling. As concerned voices lament the failing crops, the GAA deflects. The GAA says, look here's a picture of two lush ears of corn, Limerick and Clare, in the sunshine. Stop imagining, your worries are mere illusions.

Croke Park has perfected the art of persuading people that motion is action, that intentions signify progress. Review bodies, pats on the back and lip service are tools of the trade.

Telling five counties that are struggling to keep hurling alive that their inter-county season will now be three months long is something we should have seen coming. Another committee had the idea of creating the job of national hurling director. It was a good idea, but it was a half measure. Asking one man, Martin Fogarty, to grow the game when a full task force was needed was the cheap option.

Hurling needed an army, serious funding plus political backing from Croke Park. Fogarty wore himself to a frazzle representing hurling in places where many would prefer to forget about the game. When he finished his five-year contract, he was neither offered a new contract nor replaced.

Hurling needs leadership gaslighting GAA can't provide (rte.ie)

Tombo2001 · 20-11-2023 10:50pm

Pat Spillane Feels Some Counties Are 'Wasting Money' On Hurling Teams | Balls.ie

Controversial take from Pat Spillane here but I would have to agree with him.

When people say 'the GAA' isnt doing enough to promote hurling - what the hell does this mean?

Do they mean the administrators in Croke Park?

Do they mean the county boards?

Do they mean the individual clubs?

Spillane is absolutely spot on - if kids arent playing hurling, then you are wasting your time putting big bucks into county teams.

To get kids playing hurling you need two things, but of those you need primarily one thing.

First you need clubs who are willing to say - from Nursery up, its football one week and hurling the next. And then, and most of all, you need lads and ladies who are willing to give up a night or two a week to train it. Thats really grassroots level stuff. But without it, nothing else will happen. This really has f-all to do with funding from Croke Park.

My impression of this debate and listening to this debate, it seems to be more venting by the likes of Donal Og, than really looking what needs to be done.

Ultimately, its up to Cavan people to get kids hurling in Cavan. Its up to Fermanagh people to get kids hurling in Fermanagh.

Treble double · 20-11-2023 11:30pm

Ya wouldn't agree with much Spillane says but he is right here. Funding these county teams to travel around playing matches is a complete waste of money. Alot of these teams have players who have moved from hurling counties that wouldn't get their place in a club team in said counties. Put the money into underage coaching and see will it improve these counties down the line.

rrs · 21-11-2023 12:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393887#Comment_121393887

Eastern part of Cavan makes no effort at Hurling. Kingscourt, Virginia, Bailieborough have good population based with influx of Dubs. There is soccer and Gaelic but hurling is never tried.

Cootehill at least have a team. South Cavan is more where the passion for it, around.

Nn

Tombo2001 · 21-11-2023 9:58am

Biggest threat to hurling in this country is probably increased rainfall. Wet pitches everywhere.

evolvingtipperary101 · 21-11-2023 3:01pm

....

celt262 · 21-11-2023 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394285#Comment_121394285

Eastern Gaels cover that part of the County and were beat by Cootehill in the Senior county final this year and have teams starting from U7 right the way up to Senior.

evolvingtipperary101 · 21-11-2023 11:53pm

Leitrim Hurling Manager Statement.

The GAA’s motto is ‘Where we all belong’; it hasn’t felt like we all belong in the past couple of weeks if you’re a Leitrim hurler. We can be cut loose; cut adrift. We’re expendable. I’ve held my counsel for long enough.

This is the third attempt to get rid of the Leitrim hurling team or remove us from the league in a year. Two attempts were made to do so at county board level which never made it further than the executive. Now, attempt number three comes at national level.

I want to be respectful but, given what has been said by our county board treasurer in the media at the weekend, I have to put some context out there.

Some players who have given their absolute best for Leitrim have also had their character and ability called into question in the wording of the CCCC proposal. They deserve better.

I have known for some time that our county board treasurer has been one of the biggest supporters of the CCCC proposal. He laid out his case at the weekend. I want to provide some context.

The estimated set of accounts I was shown a number of weeks ago showed costs of €203,000 based upon both the senior hurling team and the U17 hurling team. We immediately offered to fundraise to help with these costs but were told not to. When we looked into it further, the net cost of hurling was just over €70,000 to the County Board.

Leitrim supporters will be well aware of the 50 Mile Challenge that was undertaken and the sale of Leitrim Supporters Club Tickets. The funds raised were split between Senior, U20 and U17 inter-county football teams and the Senior and U17 hurling teams. Of the money raised, the 2 hurling teams combined only received 1.6%. The senior hurling team was allocated just 0.8%. The remaining 98.4% was distributed to three other inter-county teams.

How is it fair that for every €100 raised by the good people of Leitrim out walking in the rain or buying a supporters club ticket, just 80 cents went to the Senior Hurling Team? How was it decided that Leitrim hurlers should be allocated so little from the fundraising drive?

We have been waiting for the finalised set of accounts for weeks now. The €203,000 figure presented to me in the estimated accounts, became €208,000 when it was presented to the County Board Executive and is now being publicly stated as €215,000.

If the accounts are not finalised how can a member of our County Board publicly quote any figure and use it as a reason to support the CCCC proposal? The Treasurer has also quoted a figure of a net cost of €80,000 to the County Board – €10,000 more than our calculations.

What is the basis for these figures? What are the actual figures? These are all legitimate questions.

Supposing the €203,000 figure I was presented with weeks back is more or less correct, let’s break this down a little.

First, there are items outside of our control. We had two trips to England in both the League and the Championship. Both of these are subject to a grant from Croke Park and we remained within the limits of these grants. There was no added cost to Leitrim GAA.

We also don’t have access to the Centre of Excellence in Annaduff on a Friday night. This dramatically increased the players’ travel expenses because we had to train on Tuesdays and Thursdays, which also put considerable strain on the players. I raised this issue with our Treasurer and was told nothing could be done as both pitches and gym were being used.

Therefore, we took steps ourselves to resolve that issue. Bornacoola GAA have kindly given us the use of their astro turf pitch of Friday nights to allow us train. This should have a major impact in terms of reducing associated costs.

When you take these two items alone off the €203,000, the figure could come down to anywhere between €150,000 and €160,000. Players are also now running a fundraising campaign with a target of €20,000, which is within reach. This again reduces costs to the County Board.

The figure of €203,000 (or €208,000 or €215,000, which ever figure is actually correct) is misleading. With grants coming from the GAA, cost saving and fundraising by management and players and a fair allocation of money from the County Board fundraisers, it should be possible to bring the net cost of hurling down to very low levels.

There are real, practical solutions here that don’t involve killing hurling in Leitrim for the sake of saving money. And make no mistake, that is what the CCCC proposal is all about.

We know we are a small county. We know we don’t have endless resources. We know that football takes precedence. We’re willing to find solutions but we also expect fair play and not to be made a mockery of.

Travel expenses are a huge issue and there is no getting away from that fact. Both hurling and football have this challenge. There are a number of lads based in Galway and Dublin etc, but is that their fault? I know nearly all of them come home every weekend and spend as much time in Leitrim as they can. Leitrim is a fantastic place to live and most of the people from Leitrim who don’t live here do so through necessity rather than choice.

Most of these young men have to leave because of employment opportunities or to go to college. I have seen first-hand the effort it takes to get to training and their dedication is now being held up as a problem. We should be commending these lads for their commitment not using it against them.

On that point, there has been a disgraceful attempt to smear the Leitrim hurling team. I still have not been told who provided the information included in the ‘proposal’ to Croke Park or how they got it. But when I read it, I was both angry and disappointed that someone from our own GAA community could do this to their own county men.

There are 5 players not playing their hurling within the county. But to try use lads like Joe Murray and David McGovern to make us look bad is very wrong. David in particular is someone who has given nearly twelve years to Leitrim GAA, has parents with a proud Mohill connection, and while living in Dublin calls himself a Dublin/Leitrim man. This is not right in my opinion.

Then you have reference to 6 players not playing in the County Hurling Final. Again, absolutely no context given. Stephen Goldrick and Liam Moreton both got injured with their football club. Paul Lenehan suffered 2 concussions in the space of a number of weeks and so the 3 of these were ruled out through injury.

The final was a week later than usual and one man had his honeymoon booked and another had a family holiday booked. The sixth man was Arron McLoughlin from Fenagh. He used to play his hurling with Ballinamore. He is someone we thought had potential and we were right. He played in both league and championship this year for our county.

How can someone from our own GAA community portray their fellow county men like this?

On the proposal itself, everyone agrees that we need more clubs and more hurling, but we have asked for a full time GDA every year for nearly 10 years and have been refused. Even in 2017, a year in which our Treasurer has publicly stated the cost of hurling was just €75,000, we were refused. So why would it change now on the back of this proposal?

This is just a cost cutting exercise dressed up as something else. There is no plan in place, no estimate on figures, no concrete evidence to show that anything will ever be done. We currently have a hurling GDA split between us and Sligo – 30% Leitrim 70% Sligo. It’s an impossible task to ask anyone to do.

But in reality we only need to come with another 70% to have our own full time GDA. I don’t think that’s impossible, especially now on the back of the publicity generated by this proposal. I would also like to point out that when we had a full time hurling GDA we had 4 hurling clubs and since that financial backing has been withdrawn that number has dropped to 2. Again not the fault of the current group of inter county hurlers.

Hurling has been under-funded in this county for years and now the people that have kept it alive are being asked to pay the price. Rather than being encouraged in our efforts to keep alive a game recognised by UNESCO, we’re being told it’s better to pull the plug. Take it off life-support. Let it slip away. When it’s gone, it will never come back.

As I said at the start of this, the GAA’s motto is ‘Where we all belong’. If the Leitrim hurlers don’t belong in Leitrim GAA, then where do they belong?

Olcan Conway

Leitrim Hurling Manager

Will Hurling separate from the GAA to form its own body sooner rather than later?

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