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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,320 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    It's been done in Eastern Ukraine since 2014 when Russia invaded there.

    Been done by both sides.

    No doubt the Russians have huge underground concrete bunkers and probably the Ukrainians have too in the longer timeframe front areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭IdHidden


    On land The Russian army is mainly in a defensive posture, with mine and trenches just like in WW1, that an invading army has be reduced to a static defensive posture, is very far from victory.

    The current stalemate is based on the military capability of each side, and that will change with time.

    Given the technological and economic advantages of their supporters the Ukrainians have far more capacity for improvement than the Russians have.

    On the sea, Ukraine a country without any real navy, has managed to cause the Russian Navy many casualties.

    In the Air, Russia has not achieved air superiority, and it is unlikely it ever will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,320 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    A very good thread on how Russia imports microchips for military and the lengths they go to traverse the sanctions.

    There's an Irish element mentioned in past imports.

    Also how they will pay and favour business through cash and women.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The capacity and willingness of Ukrainian citizens to carry on the fight will also be an important factor. At present they still seem strong and possibly as well motivated as at any time.

    Whatever the eventual outcome, surely the political geography of this part of the world is changed. And that along with continuing sanctions will have a big impact on Putin's Russia. Their propagandist portrayal of Russia v The West will come to pass and the penny will drop at some stage that this was all self inflicted by the imperialist ambition of their elite.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    The drone videos of:

    * frozen Russians having grenades dropped on them

    * their mates robbing them instead of helping with wounds

    * being shot by their own barrier troops

    * fields carpeted with badly equipped Russian uniformed bodies

    * FPV drones chasing Russians into trenches and clear them out

    paint a dystopian scifi horror like picture of the infantry troops not doing much better



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Russians have always paid with cash, women or blackmail. Its how they have always worked and its what has always worked for Russians in Russia, so why not elsewhere in the world??? ( and unfortunately it is working too......)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    The sanctions will never close all loopholes and to be fair that’s not even the aim despite ever more detailed sanctions packages that in last iteration went after companies in Switzerland and UAE helping Russians

    The aim is to squeeze and choke the Russian economy, and only the most brainwashed and deluded of Putinistas would argue that is not happening. And it will only get worse and worse for them in an accelerated fashion over time. Even the oil cap has proven to be a success having the Russians sell but not make much in way of profit.

    Keep in mind that sanctions rarely if ever get lifted, I said it before and say it again, time is not on Russian side, they can look forward to decades of worse and stricter sanctions than Cuba or Venezuela or North Korea without the nice climate to take edge of them.

    At least Cuba could point to left leaning ideology of theirs which wins them sympathy, who has sympathy for Russia beside the very far right and far left for what is not even an ideology but plain war of colonial conquest they have started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭who what when


    I don't think I've posted in this tread before but I've followed it from the start and read pretty much the whole thing.

    Can someone explain how Russia can take such monumental losses? Most countries in the world don't have armies the size of what they have lost. But yet they don't appear to be losing ground.

    According to Ukraine Russia have lost over 300k soldiers. For reference the UK has an army of something like 80k! How is this possible? What kind of numbers do Ukraine need to eliminate to win this war?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Yes it can never be 100 % effective. I don't believe enough is being done, existing sanctions are not being being enforced strongly enough.

    As a further example see claim from official in our Department of Finance that Ireland has few teeth for enforcing the financial sanctions on Russia and so it is on an honour system (article below).

    It is different to the enforcing of restrictions on high technology exports, but it is a similar problem of a lack of proper enforcement and inability or unwillingness to make examples of those who break the law as a deterrent.

    The largest companies will comply because the potential damage they could suffer from breaking the law is not worth the rewards, but there are always some criminals and scum who will be prepared to risk it.

    If they are seen to suffer no consequences and they just personally profit off Russian blood money (and help prolong the war), this emboldens more to do the same.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    They can do a lot they just don’t want to here as they don’t realise yet how serious the US are

    Wait until the US starts sanctioning Irish companies (like happened with Swiss and UAE companies couple of weeks ago) and Ireland starts get a bad name and you will see panic and “oh we didn’t know” arguments from various departments while companies scramble to block deals with anyone sounding remotely Russian, quite a few companies are already ahead of the curve



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I'm blown away by the losses they've taken in the last few months and still have plenty of tanks and armoured vehicles to throw at Ukraine. It won't last forever though and whether it's another year or two they will eventually run out of tanks that are half decent.


    Economically it will be the same. You have to remember Russia saved up a lot of wealth to fund this and they're still burning through that war chest. Once it's gone with the next year they'll start burning through cash needed for their economy.

    Ukraine just need to keep going, keep the kill/death ratio high and strike as many Russian vehicles/soldiers/ammo/fuel logistics behind the front lines as possible. War isn't cheap and as long as it's sustainable for Ukraine to defend itself Russia won't win. Whether that's in 2 years or 8 years but it has to happen in this war. A ceasefire for a few year's will only benefit Russia.

    And whether it happens next year or longer Ukraine have to be given everything under the sun to make that breakthrough to the south. Turn Crimea into an island which will be extremely costly to keep resupplying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    There was a reason they were considered a super power. They do have a large army. Few realised quite how ineffective it would be but it is still very large. There will be no quick win for the Ukraine for this reason but that it has lasted this long and that Russia is now largely lost the ability to move forward shows that the long term war will be won by the Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    @jmreire will tell you about why as we've discussed it before. I too can't see how they are managing to keep a lid on Russian society in this modern era of connectivity. Yes, the Russian provinces may be less well educated but I'd assume that most/ many young people are quite adept with consumer technology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,543 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Fear. Plain and simple.

    Culturally, the vast majority of Russian people have never known anything other than serfdom. First under the Tzars, then under the Communist Party, now under Putin's Mafia. Vast amounts of money and personnel have been invested in to keep the serfs beaten down and a brutal response to any attempt to protest or rise up over the past few decades has the Russian people too afraid to fight for their own interests. It took a long time for me to understand it to tbh.

    I'd absolutely recommend this documentary on the fall of the Soviet Union (which I came across thanks to another poster on this thread) to help get your head around it somewhat: TraumaZone: What It Felt Like to Live Through The Collapse of Communism and Democracy

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSjQL8MYniTTLA3wnZ25U-s6RgR4uJNvL

    It's a seven-part BBC documentary television series by Adam Curtis that use's archival footage from the BBC's Moscow bureau to brilliant effect. There's a few good documentaries on Channel 4 on Putin that show the more recent history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    We can but hope to see more of that sort of thing I suppose. (Speaking generally, not about Ireland in particular) the US govt. (or some larger European countries like France/Germany/UK) taking up the torch, ruining a few companies committing sins of omission or commission around sanctions and jailing fat cat directors or managers involved that dare to show faces on US/EU soil would be great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭Steviemak7


    The Adam Curtis documentary is fascinating. The raw footage is very powerful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's a pretty bold statement surely at risk of quick contradiction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭wildefalcon


    Dated 2022. But in a sense, accurate. No gains of note since then.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    Ffs look at the date below the video.

    Here, i circled it

    Screenshot_20231113-184842~2.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,320 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    One report of Ukrainians with F16s in Ukraine.

    Hopefully true and are a help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    That prediction was spot on

    March 25th 2022 was the height of Russian occupation by area

    Since then it was an industrial scale Russian “Special” mince meat sausage making operation for the glorious benefit of dear leader of Russiastan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭zv2


    Didn't realize it was so dated, but still accurate. Avdiivka may be the last big one for the Russians.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire


    To put it in a nutshell, Russia is a Mafia state, with Don Putin at its head. He is the ultimate power in Russia, with the power of life or death, literally over everyone, and his tentacles reach worldwide. Skripol poisoning in England, and a bit closer to home, Prigozhin, one of his "Stars", but when push came to shove, he met his "premature" end to on Putins orders.

    If you google "Putin Russia and the West", or Channel 4's "Hunting Russia's lost boys Dispatches" This was on last night, and by accident I happened to see it. A very telling slice of present day Russian life.... the complete disdain that the state has for its citizens, the sense of powerless these women felt when they tried to find out what had happened their menfolk. And also the implied threat if you asked to many questions. It also shows the real Russia not the glamour and glitz that is to be found in Moscow or St, Petersburg. If you watch it, take note of the conditions these people live under.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Brilliant if Ukraine has these to use. The question, of course, is how effective can they be if Russia has known for months that Ukraine would be getting them. What kind of sorties can Ukrainian F-16s run if Russia has AA batteries strategically placed behind their front lines? Will Ukraine be provided with the kind of ordinance required to really degrade heavily dug-in Russian positions? Like concrete bunkers and so on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭rogber


    Adam Curtis is a pure stylist, I actually quite like his films but anyone who thinks they offer some sort of objective truth is deluded. He goes into the archives with his preconceived ideas and stitches together footage that supports these ideas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Don't know if you've watched it but I found TraumaZone was somewhat different to the other (more well known?) polemic type ones. Have seen a few of them over the years but haven't bothered to rewatch any in a long time, and they are a bit hazy in memory now. Your description fits them from what I remember.

    I think there was just cards/plain text on screen describing the events in history (the period of the collapse of the Soviet Union) contemporaneous with the pieces of video archive footage. I did not detect too large of a bias in these (maybe an anti-capitalist one which is somewhat understandable in context), and there isn't as far as I remember any voiceover hammering points home and impressing a certain pov or a strong narrative structure on the viewer.

    The main interest to it I found was that old, maybe quite rare, BBC footage of different people and aspects of ordinary life all across the USSR/Russia, even if not much is happening on screen at times. Could ignore the history text, and just enjoy these.

    There was footage of big events too, but a lot of it is just fairly random (or if there was an agenda or a message behind every piece of footage selected, I wasn't smart/aware/knowledgeable enough to detect it).

    Post edited by fly_agaric on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,979 ✭✭✭thomil


    I can see three big advantages for the F-16 right out the gate.

    • As a western-built aircraft, the Viper can integrate seamlessly with a lot of the weapons already provided by the west. You may remember that, early in the war, the Ukrainian Air Force was able to integrate the AGM-88 HARM anti-radar missile into their MiG-29 and Su-27 force. This modification drastically reduced the attack modes that were available for the missile. When carried on an F-16, all attack modes will be available, turning the system into a much bigger threat for Russian AA systems. This is also true for other weapons systems provided to Ukraine, such as the AGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile, JDAM and possibly even Storm Shadow, though I'm not 100% sure about that last one. It is NATO compatible, but the F-16 might need some software upgrades to handle the missile.
    • The F-16 will enable Ukraine to better secure its own airspace against cruise missile or drone attacks, due to its greater emphasis on pilot situational awareness, data link capability and the ability to utilise weapons systems such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM. This is a massive step change compared to Ukraine's current inventory of MiG-29s and even the Su-27s.
    • It simply means that Ukraine will have more airframes available for operation. The fact that the Ukrainian Air Force still has a significant number of Su-27s and MiG-29s operational at all is a testament to the skill of the air crews and the ground support staff, but things are getting thin. The Su-24 force (the aircraft modified to launch Storm Shadow missiles) and the Su-25 force (ground attack aircraft) seem to have taken quite a beating, and getting even a singe additional squadron of F-16s operational would increase Ukraine's capability quite considerably, even if only by adding additional airframes to the mix.

    Having said that, the F-16 is no miracle weapon, and we should be careful to temper our expectations. There will be no massive fighter sweep that takes out the Russian Air Force once the first Ukrainian F-16 squadron becomes operational. We might see a slight increase in strikes against radar sites or key targets, but nothing world changing. Things in the air might change once more aircraft become available, but this is a long-term project, and in its early phases in particular, will likely be mostly defensive in nature.

    Oh, and I think it's also worthwhile to point out that the first F-16s on Ukrainian soil will likely not be combat ready for quite some time even after they arrive. It'll take time for enough aircraft to arrive to form a combat-ready squadron, for the ground crews to work out the best way to service the aircraft at their home bases, for additional pilots to build up hours and so on. So even if the fist F-16s have arrived in Ukraine, which I'm sceptical about, I don't expect any major activity from them before December, possibly not before Christmas.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



This discussion has been closed.
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