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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    my starting point is that all information in a war is distorted , as I dont speak Russian i cant vouch anything they say and Ukrainian information is bound to be exaggerated so unless you have losses and potential replacements that the Russians and Americans agree on, I just assume they have a certain flexibility to ration out what they have. If the Russians are weaker than the Ukrainians then eventually the lines will crack in their direction.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭macraignil


    But you fully believe the horsesh**t article you posted yesterday about alleged ammunition production data which is always going to be made public knowledge in 100% accuracy because telling your enemy what weapons you can and cannot produce is such a logical thing to do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    My general view is that articles written in Time, The Economist, WP etc that contain criticisms of Ukraine at least have a chance of being true as these establishment publications wouldnt allow their writers to essentially put out Russian propaganda. a logical assumption I hope?

    the flip of that , was that during the Summer offensive, all the articles about Ukraine likely to make it to the Sea of Asov, I could take a view of whether they passed the smell test because there was likely to be a narrative/disinformation element to it. As it was it was clear to me it was going nowhere after about 2 weeks, I might have said so back the way at the time, to which the easiest response was "youre wrong", while getting a feverish amount of likes, luckily this site is so tedious to search back so I cant be arsed to look for updates ;-)

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    You have taken Zalushnis article in economist where he simply outlines in 5 clearly articulated points the main issues faced by both Russia and Ukraine and shows he is looking for a tech solution (something that is an alien concept for Russia)

    And ran with that to confirm your belief that Russia will win this Three Day War of theirs because the “Russia is Big” meme dictates that Russia has endless resources weapons and manpower, blah blah

    Despite almost two years now of Ukraine systematically and repeatedly disproving this meme as wrong (much to the annoyance of the publications you quoted who before the war fell for same Russia Big meme)

    What I took from Zalushnys article is that he is an incredible theoretician and military strategist is capable of learning from mistakes that is thinking several steps in advance

    All while Russians are repeatedly making same mistake in Avdiivka (where they lost more men and equipment in couple of weeks than Ukraine done taking much larger territories since summer) by sending a wave after wave of men and equipment to get shredded into paste

    Perhaps you can learn from Zalushniy and admit to and a learn from your mistakes and failed assumptions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Speaking of Russians not learning here’s an NSFW drone video of fields of them and their equipment dead and they just keep making exact same attacks

    I hope their death for the Glorious Benefit of Dear Leader Putin was worth it




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "I could take a view of whether they passed the smell test because there was likely to be a narrative/disinformation element to it."

    Not sure what you mean by smell test but it is clear from the media that is coming from putin's side in this war that he makes very little effort to be believable and is more aiming to spread distrust and confusion across all media sources. Cherry picking the articles you post to just include one that gives a glint of positivity in the outlook for putin's forces in Ukraine speaks volumes of what you would like to see happen in the war there. putin won't even call his invasion of Ukraine a war.

    I personally did not have any set expectations of the forces of Ukraine in their efforts to free themselves from putin's aggression and all evidence I have seen points to them making huge progress in destroying russia as a military force. It made sense for them to try break the land bridge to Crimea that puin's forces had established by reaching the sea of Azov, but it was known to be well defended and I see the talk of a beach party in Crimea last summer by Ukraine as more likely to be an effort to draw more of putin's forces into range to be liquidated. Look at the media outcry last week when putin's forces were shown to have actually hit a military target and kill 19 Ukrainian troops and contrast that with the regular updates of much larger numbers of moskovytes and their equipment being eliminated.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Thats Shredding with a capital "S". Strange, at one point it shows 2 parallel lines of white dots while around them are literally hundreds of the same white dots randomly spaced? Most likely Cluster munitions, after the tanks were shelled with something heavier. What a sheer waste of human life and resources. Putin may your nightmares cause you an agonizing death, the same kind that you caused so many people during your miserable life.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Putin may your nightmares cause you an agonizing death, the same kind that you caused so many people during your miserable life.

    We can be sure Putin will die in bed, as it has often been the case with tyrants. The problem is a now wounded but prideful army may yet be a potentially tragic catalyst for a new nationalist movement. Russia is gonna be a huge conflagration that could impact a half dozen countries when Putin croaks and I'd be delighted to be proven otherwise; the army will be full of embittered officers who felt "the politicians" betrayed the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Unfortunately, you are most likely right about Putin dying in bed surrounded by doctors and nurses, unlike Joe Stalin who died alone on the floor, in very messy circumstances. Over time he had executed all of his doctors, so there was no one available willing to attend him when the time came. The Guards had to wait until his daughter arrived and went into his room and found him. But one can live in hope.........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    is this real?

    I'll have to google this little pub quiz question.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I believe so; he was so feared, his guards didn't risk disturbing Stalin when they heard something in his bedroom so left him alone, to die. The film Death of Stalin goes into the insanity of the post Stalin days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭Rawr


    That was a hard watch, but I felt like I had to. I do feel sorry for the mobniks that are getting mowed down like this. That’s not to say I don’t blame the AFU for having to do it, or that or that they are wrong for fighting back (which they must).

    But I do feel that many of the Russian dead are also victims. Although it might have been an AFU shell or bullet that killed them, it was ultimately Putin who made certain that they died. Many of them don't want to be there, I suspect many also realise to their own horror that they are destined to be cannon fodder, and live out their find days in terror. Forced into battle by a side that will shoot them for retreating and against a foe who are motivated to shoot anyone in thier uniform. I want the Russians to lose, but I also pity those mobniks who probably didn’t want any of this.

    I wonder if one day we’ll see a repeat of De-Stalinisation. A sort of De-Putinisation of Russia. That man has personally destroyed countless families across Russia. I wonder if they will try to forget him (and likely fail)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    I suspect they will instead proudly celebrate the self harm on Russia that Putin has unleashed

    Probably rename St Petersburg as Putingrad or something



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    the smell test in relation to the Summer offensive was , I could see the Russian defences, their blanket use of mines, the fact they had drone and other coverage of the battlefield, the battlefield itsself was frighteningly flat and exposed, no airforce, so while the Ukranians had the advantage of attacking anywhere along a 1000km front while the Russians had to man everywhere, 2 weeks in Ukr hadnt cracked the defenses, at that stage everyone's cards were on the table, it was clear to me it wanst going anywhere yet the pro offensive articles continued for a couple of months but being subject to more and more criticism

    Obviously the full story wont come out for 10 years as to who knew what and what the Americans and the West were dictating to Kyiv, I am prejudiced that the yanks see Ukrainians as dispensable so would have wanted the Ukrainians to attack against their wishes, the alternative to the summer offensive would have been to replicate the russians by building their own lines and make it very painful for the russians to advance another inch, keep the Ukr army intact and force a stalemate. Now the 2 potential states appear to be, stalemate or a war of attrition which the Russians by virtue of their size are more likely to win.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I think you may be getting some stuff wrong in 2nd para above.

    I am not sure, but don't believe an identical strategy to Russia could be implemented, even if that were best. Western countries would not have the landmines to give Ukraine. They have never really fought that way, and there is a UN Convention against the anti-personnel type landmines, which a lot of Ukraine's backers have signed (even if I don't think the US has?).

    It is a bit similar to the cluster bombs IMO, which of course Russia has used freely, even on towns and cities. Many allies of the US have signed the UN Convention against these. US still has large stockpiles, but afair stopped making more even though it did not sign this Convention, maybe because a lot of their allies won't handle, buy or use them any longer.

    In any case I think Ukraine believed themselves (still believe) they have the military strength to at least get back some more territory, once they get the tools off their supporters to do so (still waiting I would argue), so why would they set up a strategy of fixed defensive lines etc. to freeze Russia where they are now? Should be borne in mind that there are citizens of their country suffering under Russian occupation in that territory at present. So I expect it is a lot more than a line on a map, or a piece in future discussions with Putin for Ukraine's govt.

    I think you may overestimate the level of control over Ukraine's military decisions the US (or West) has + are getting close to Russian govt. line that they are a puppet who will just attack and defend from Russia as and when "master" Uncle Sam says so, which is a load of rubbish IMO. The lever the US have is whether to support them or not, and if so by how much, and what types of support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    “Americans and the West were dictating to Kyiv”

    Didn’t take long for the mask to fall

    When your starting position is a Russian propaganda conspiracy point and your end conclusion is the debunked “Russia is Big” meme everything must seem red white and blue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Is there any possibility of tunneling under defensive lines for Ukraine or would it be pointless without tanks and heavy infantry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,982 ✭✭✭jmreire




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "Now the 2 potential states appear to be, stalemate or a war of attrition which the Russians by virtue of their size are more likely to win."

    I know russia by land area is big but with only 9 people per square kilometer does it actually have the economic and labour resources to utilise that physical size particularly with thousands being sent to their deaths by putin and many more running away from the country in recent years?

    The economy of the russian federation is a fraction of that of the EU and putin in invading Ukraine has in reality declared war on all of the EU which has the military support of all of NATO while putin can only rely on the military support of Belarus, Syria, North Korea and Iran with other neighbours that continue to trade with putin fully aware that to support him militarily would lead to their own economies and people suffering because of putin's dreams of empire building. Even before the war and imposition of sanctions the economy and the industrial resources putin had to work with mean a long conflict in spite of your opinion does not give him a better chance of victory in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's a possibility worth checking out,they could in theory undermine the Russian trenches and minefields and blow large corridors fore men and vehicles to safely pass through,I'm surprised they haven't already tried



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If nothing else, it would be another check mark under 'WW1 w/ drones'.

    Neither side is going to be able to break the stalemate as things stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭Rawr


    It’s been done in trench warfare before, but can be extremely risky with the added danger of giving the enemy access to your trenches.

    During Winter the ground will also be much harder to dig into, making tunneling a very laborious task for an already overloaded force. Taking the trenches does have the advantage of opening up an area to allow tanks to advance but I suspect the more realistic tactic for the AFU is to punch corridors across No-Mans Land for their APCs, take out the Russian artillery and then deliver troops into the enemy trenches via APC / Tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Tunnel warfare was,I think huge in WW1.They tunneled and did a Guy Fawkes number under the other side's troop concentrations.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Tunnelling is dangerous, lethal work and there's a thousand things that could go wrong before the sappers got near their target. Bunker busters and their ilk a much cheaper less costly way of getting defences destroyed - and given Ukraine has to be more careful about its troops, are probably taking the safer option when and where they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    One particular undermining operation at Messines took out something like 10,000 in a single explosion,the Lochnagar crater is huge which you can visit today

    And something the Ukrainians know a thing about between coal and salt mines



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Had no idea it had been so destructive (rather not ask who got killed then)


    Puts me in mind of the British attack on the French (Brittany?) harbour when they filled a boat with gunpowder .


    I think it exploded out of range.


    Would that have been 17th century?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    There's a good movie called Beneath Hill 60 about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Yeah I haven't been there but massive hole in the ground from documentaries I've seen, only saving grace the soldiers wouldn't of known what happened when it detonated. I'm actually surprised the Russians haven't made massive mine shafts under their tranches and when Ukraine advances blow them up when they loose them if they done tht a few times you would be wary of going into a trench I say thinking tht might happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    For a country that we are told is meant to have endless man power and artillery they sure as hell like moaning about the enemy having artillery advantage




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,933 ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    It seems the 10000 number might be a misunderstanding

    https://simonjoneshistorian.com/did-the-messines-mines-really-kill-10000-germans/



This discussion has been closed.
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