General Star Trek thread

eadrom · 30-10-2023 12:17PM

Season 1 of TNG had a character from a planet with rape gangs so the darkness on the frontiers has always been there.

I mean TNG season 1 had its fair share of ropey concepts. But also they didn’t spend a season long ark on the war effort to liberate the planet.

And I’m not really discounting that there are pockets of turmoil and hard times in the Star Trek universe, but that’s just not what Star Trek is, at it’s best, imo, about.

The last couple of seasons of DS9 were boring.

eadrom · 30-10-2023 12:23PM

@breezy1985

War was always the default position in 90% of sci-fi and Star Trek was the exception.

And so it should remain 🙂

It's only the Federation who are generally good guys in Trek.

Actually I would like to see a (probably mini-)series focused on one of the other races. That could be a back door into seeing a less utopian version of the Star Trek universe that I wouldn’t mind so much.

breezy1985 · 30-10-2023 12:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301270#Comment_121301270

My dream is a miniseries on how all the DS9 aliens are getting on post war. Bajor 20+ years under the Federation, explore Cardassia's attempts to rebuild and find out what happened to the remaining Jem'Hadar and Vorta (if they didn't all off themselves)

Serious, tense and political without anyone actually shooting at each other.

pixelburp · 30-10-2023 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300181#Comment_121300181

Too lazy to Google but didn't season 1 also see the head honchos that replaced Fuller also get sacked? The season was obviously a total mess and there's probably a tonne of details that went nowhere cos of the change.

Last time I watched Discovery, Stamets and Culber were angsting over the Trill girl they took a shine to; Stamets called her their "daughter" completely out of nowhere, having established no such relationship - they did dirty on both those characters.

breezy1985 · 30-10-2023 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301442#Comment_121301442

Sorry if I'm repeating myself but having the non binary character date the trans one and get "adopted" by the gay couple was an absolutely pathetic attempt at being progressive. Way too 21st century looking.

Have the non binary or trans character date a heterosexual and do it with absolutely no fuss or mention like it's the most normal thing ever.

Or have some bisexual characters with no special episode or plot about it. Just have them be bi.

Evade · 30-10-2023 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301243#Comment_121301243

I'm reasonably sure DS9 season 4 to 7 are generally very well regarded among Star Trek fans and about as far from boring as you can get.

eadrom · 30-10-2023 02:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301644#Comment_121301644

Just in my opinion. I've re-watched the show a couple of times in recent years and it always becomes a bit of a chore around season 6. The light goes out of it, and it's all subterfuge and turmoil and ends justifying the means.

They might have done it objectively well on DS9 but so what? Just another sci-fi show about a messed up future and the "fight" for humanity. I found it pretty boring. Writing an interesting show about humanity's brightest future with little or no conflict would have been much more impressive. But of course the DS9 writers were famously only too happy to drop that Roddenberry edict.

Stark · 30-10-2023 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301615#Comment_121301615

I think they were going for the concept of "queer chosen families" (where teenagers get disowned by their **** conservative parents and get "adopted" by someone in the community) but being the hack writers that they were just dropped that in like they just read a sentence from a Wikipedia article, not to mention that it doesn't make sense in the post-bigotry society of the Federation.

Evade · 30-10-2023 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301710#Comment_121301710

A utopia without problems to overcome sounds like a very exciting series.

eadrom · 30-10-2023 03:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301756#Comment_121301756

Not quite what I said but yeah whatever.

Evade · 30-10-2023 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301804#Comment_121301804

You can't have drama without conflict.

pixelburp · 30-10-2023 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301615#Comment_121301615

Of course what we're always fundamentally dancing around is that too many brain trusts in Trek are a pile of incompetents who haven't found a situation they couldn't handle with the deftness of a crowbar to the face. Of course, the Twitter Good Ally types on Twitter have applauded these cackhanded attempts at "progressive".

eadrom · 30-10-2023 04:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301910#Comment_121301910

You can have problems to overcome without conflict though. Exploration, discovery, science, adventure.

Star Trek writers shouldn't be leaning on alien invasion, secret black-ops soldiers, or a Federation civil war to keep things interesting. Get out there and explore for gods sake.

breezy1985 · 30-10-2023 04:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301755#Comment_121301755

"Queer chosen families" is my whole problem. Thats a thing now in our still sometimes bigoted 21st century.

It's not how you portray the idea of a future utopia. Those found families should not need to exist in the future.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301969#Comment_121301969

I absolutely hate that Federation civil war idea that pops up all the time thanks to the expanded universe.

Evade · 30-10-2023 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301969#Comment_121301969

Anomaly of the week gets stale and if they're putting the ship in danger you're just subbing conflict with people (including aliens) with conflict with nature or machinery.

pixelburp · 30-10-2023 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301969#Comment_121301969

I think though, the core problem and hurdle to get over is all you describe is symptomatic or the times we live in IMO. All this Post 911, post truth, the climate bordering on collapse, wars still prevalent and impactful globally... and the golden utopia dreamed when Pax Americana in the 60s felt like a noble dream long dead.

Sci-fi has always reflected the mood of the Zeitgeist - not without reason Trek kinda died after Vietnam and those Gen X types started creating a decade of dystopian fiction in the 70s. From THX1138 to Phase 4 and all that jazz. Of course it took 1138's creator to restore even the possibility of Trek on screen. We haven't seen any kind of resurgence of optimistic thinking - cos what's to be optimistic about? Strange New Worlds has been an odd outlier for that reason.

breezy1985 · 30-10-2023 06:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302032#Comment_121302032

SNW wouldn't have been made if it wasn't piggybacking on another big trend of the day in nostalgia.

Some randomer with a non brand name happy positive sci-fi show would have no hope.

flazio · 30-10-2023 07:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302599#Comment_121302599

Erm, The Orville?

breezy1985 · 30-10-2023 08:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302765#Comment_121302765

Which began life very much as a Star Trek parody and was written by one of the biggest names in Hollywood comedy. It's essentially a version of SNW that skirts copyright laws.

AMKC · 31-10-2023 04:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302833#Comment_121302833

I disagree. Its more like a 25th or 26th Century Version of TNG.

Also it was around before SNW so it can not be a version of SNW.

breezy1985 · 31-10-2023 07:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306740#Comment_121306740

A version of is not the same as a copy of.

It could not exist without Star Trek so using it as an example of a show made by "a randomer with a no name brand" doesn't work.

pixelburp · 31-10-2023 07:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302599#Comment_121302599

Iin fairness Anson Mount kicked the door down in Discovery season 2 to solidify what might have otherwise been empty nostalgia winks. Yes his presence alone were memberberries but it's to Mount's credit that he has basically made Pike his own, reaching beyond empty nostalgia. I like the basic premise of Pike in being aware he's living his own prequel.

eadrom · 01-11-2023 04:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301910#Comment_121301910

and another thing...

This "no drama without conflict" idea has been rattling around my head a bit. Like that doesn't mean we can't have a sci-fi show or any other drama without people pointing [laser] guns at each other, or even that there needs to be any argument or disagreement among people. Not that I'm ruling out a bit of a disagreement in a good Star Trek story but it's not necessary for drama.

A character can have internal conflict over a decision they need to make. A doctor can have conflict as they struggle to save a patient at the expensive of something else. An explorer can have conflict while they battle the elements on an undiscovered planet. And to include argument, there's political and diplomatic and even ideological conflict with other races in Star Trek, and even some inter-personal conflict over the right choices to make in a situation (discussions in the ready room, for example).

And all that's fine. Plenty enough "conflict" without turning anything into a bloody battle for life.

We've probably all seen the clips of TNG/DS9 writers rolling their eyes a bit over Roddenberry's "no conflict among the crew" rule, or stories of putting the blindfold over the Roddenberry statue while certain scenes were written. I think it's a bit of a cop-out to be honest. Obviously you need something to overcome in a drama -- and that's your conflict -- but that doesn't need be anything like a prolonged war story against an unstoppable evil, season after season, or Federation civil war, or any of that. That's just lazy.

Evade · 01-11-2023 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121311383#Comment_121311383

Those were the types of conflict I was alluding to.

eadrom · 01-11-2023 09:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121312791#Comment_121312791

OK good, we agree then. I must have taken you up wrong.

Evade · 01-11-2023 10:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121312911#Comment_121312911

Yeah. When you wrote without conflict you meant armed conflict but I read it as any conflict.

pixelburp · 21-11-2023 03:52PM

Thread went awful quiet: let's have a chuckle. An "intake" that works a little too well

https://youtu.be/4TxEd1TztEg

AMKC · 04-12-2023 03:25PM

Actors or actresses you would love to see in Star Trek?

For me it's Brie Larson. She is brilliant.

If you have not seen "Lessons in Chemistry" Then I highly recommend it. It is a brilliant show and you can see how brilliant Brie Larson is in it.

She would make an amazing Vulcan in Star Trek or even an Android like Data.

Imagine a 25th century version Android like Data but female in maybe Star Trek Legacy.

Have they even began casting for that yet?

Personally I think it should be named Star Trek Frontier.

corkie · 04-12-2023 06:00PM

@AMKC

Imagine a 25th century version Android like Data but female in maybe Star Trek Legacy.

Have they even began casting for that yet?

As far as I know that series hasn't even been green-lit yet so why would you expect a casting for it.

As I am posting!

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Assimilation%C2%B2_%28comic_story%29

Never knew about that comic book crossover.

Stark · 04-12-2023 06:02PM

Imagine a 25th century version Android like Data but female in maybe Star Trek Legacy.

Have they even began casting for that yet?

Didn't they already have that with Soji?

General Star Trek thread

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