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General Star Trek thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Jeez he must be desperate for a gig if that's what he is doing. A pity. Would love to see him voice Myles O Brien again on Lower Decks.

    I see Patrick Stewart will be on "The Graham Norton show" again tomorrow :)

    Always good Craig Patrick.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    An excellent recreation of the last day's of the USS Yamato,


    That saucer disintegrating like that still gives me chills. It is an excellent episode one of the very first really good episodes of TNG.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Always loved seeing other versions of a shows hero ship.

    Yamato, Constellation, Empok Nor and Valiant were all part of great episodes. One of the few memorable high points of Discovery was the episode skulking around the abandoned sister ship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Evade


    Wasn't that the second or third episode? I think it was still receiving the benefit of the doubt back then.

    Post edited by Evade on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yup, think it was the third and the second Pilot Episode 🤭🙄 the sister ship the USS Glenn went kaput and Burnham was drafted in from Starfleet jail to help investigate?

    They had some gruesome bodies turned inside out, and those giant space tartigrades that never came up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,753 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly



    This might be of interest to sci fi fans



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Don't remember when in the run it was but ya it was early. It one of the few bits I remember enjoying and it had a nice Event Horizon style atmosphere.

    The giant space tardigrade was the key to unlocking the spore drive and "came up again" all season and was a huge part of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    If you say so cos all I remember of season 1 are those couple of episode, the Harry Mudd one and the batshít ending with the mirror universe. If the tartigrade stuff came back the hey ho, shows how memorable it was.

    I certainly remember the gore because it happened a couple of times in Disco and Picard in what read like a lame attempt to make for mature edginess where none was needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Evade


    The tardigrades remained a thing just not the mutant ones to hunt down the crew which probably could have been an interesting limitation on the spore drive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,753 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Just came across this on YT - a must see for any TNG fans





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I remember that Discovery episode being the point where I started to smell a rat with regards the writing for Burnham. I was still pretty invested in Discovery in Season 1 up until Lorca started twirling his moustache and declaring that he was an Evil Terran! (Muu Ha! Ha! Ha!). But Michael was an issue pretty early, and it was the episode with the abandoned Crossfield-Class that started that off for me.

    In an attempt to build character, they shoehorned in the idea of Michael liking “Alice in Wonderland”. Normally, not a bad idea. This adds a little depth to a character. However, I’m not certain if this was due to bad directing or Martin-Green herself having a crap range, but they had Michael quoting Alice in Wonderland while she crawled around the Jefferies tubes of the other Crossfield Class, all without any context or even emotion. She wasn’t doing it because she was scared or worried or needed to focus; she just suddenly starts quoting….because the script said so…I guess. It became this very odd and almost jarringly artificial attempt to make her character appear to have depth. This was a bit off-putting and ruined my suspension of disbelief a little, an issue that was amplified when it became apparent that the whole show would orbit around her.

    So these episodes are usually quite good, but Discovery’s example has the distinction of being the one that showed me the first serious crack in the show’s format.

    Post edited by Rawr on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Don't really remember the Alice in Wonderland thing but I think it was about the other ship being "through the looking glass" in terms of being a fuked up version of the Discovery.

    Saw the first half of that episode again recently and Stamets is like a whole different character. They really didn't have a clue what to do with him in later seasons and he has become the stereotype sitcom "gay neighbour"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭Rawr


    The first half of season 1 had much stronger legs than much of what happened afterwards. I suspect those early episodes was them using up material Bryan Fuller developed for the show before he broke ties with CBS. Once they had mined Fuller’s concepts for all they were worth they had to make up their own stuff with the less-than-great writers they had left and I suspect Stamets was a casualty of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Wasn't there some sting at the end of an season 1 episode where Stamets' reflection stayed in places, grinned evilly or something? IIRC that never went anywhere whatsoever in another case of the show being totally sellotaped together



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The official story is that the mirror universe plot twist was always part of the story but I never believed that.

    It's an awful pity that Discovery seems to have destroyed the idea of story arcs or darker Trek for a generation. No one will be brave enough to do a 21st century DS9 style show now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    So I see that there is a "Friends" recreation set in Dublin. Not fair how about a Star Trek Enterprise D bridge set in Ireland.

    Us trekies need to come together and demand some Star Trek here in Ireland.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I don't want to see another Fair Haven, thanks all the same.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The problem with "darker Trek" is that it almost inevitably ends up at "but what if the Federation wasn't all that great?", which aside from having been done already a dozens times, it's also something any old hack can do - but few can do well which as you suggest was Ds9's strength. They explored the dark sides of the Federation without ever wallowing, or completely undercutting the entire point of the thing.

    So to that end, I'm not sure where else a more modern Dark Trek could go, not without mining that already stripped out trope of Evil Admirals and Section 31 behind every curtain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well bright Trek also has "nowhere to go" and is just "mining stripped out tropes" like SNW is doing and everyone is jizzing over that.

    There is definitely room for serious arcs or dealing deeper issues without it being about the Federation being panto villain evil like Disco and Picard done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Yeah but it's running with existing tropes from Trek of which there are many. Lots of templates or story styles and even varying tones given the switch from horror to comedy to musical; "Dark Trek" has tended to go down one avenue when called upon so genuinely curious how you do that without it becoming "is the federation actually the bad guy?". But as you point out the key problem is the talent pool running Trek wouldn't be good enough, regardless how good the idea was.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I really liked early Stamets in Discovery. He had an edge to his character. Kind hearted and willing to do the right thing when called for (such as saving the Tardigrade) but also unwilling to suffer fools and the sort of bullshit Michael would offer up. They totally neutered him in subsequent seasons. I thought we would see original Stamets when it looked like he was going to throw up in his mouth upon hearing Tilly would be his superior officer but neutered Stamets quickly took over unfortunately.

    The gay aspect of his character was also done really well in season one imo. After 50 years of Trek completely evading the fact of gay people's existence, they introduced Stamets and Culber just as seamlessly as they introduced Uhura or Sisko or Janeway. Just competent officers being who they were and doing their thing and leaving the audience wondering why was it ever a big deal in the first place. It's a pity they didn't do trans people as much justice, Gray was a bit of a **** pointless character. I do like Adira though, some seriously weird writing around the character (Stamets and Culber adopting them as their adult child) aside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Evade


    There are stories you could do as darker side of the Federation without bolting a twirlable moustache onto every character. In the Pale Moonlight is a good one to crib from as desperation forces good people to do bad things. Same with Homefront/Paradise Lost but Admiral Leyton wasn't in the main cast so it didn't have as much of an impact. The Wounded could also be a good template as Maxwell was completely right but the restrictions of the Federation forced Picard to go against him. Same for the Mauquis but that did kind of devolve into moustache twirling with some light attempted genocide. As slightly different angle an irreconcilable ideological split could drag the Federation into civil war which could pose some interesting angles especially with pulled punches protracting the conflict and creating a WWI style stalemate. leasing to some of the above.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I think Mariner worded it perfectly in the latest episode of Lower Decks.

    "Starfleet is supposed to be about puzzling together the mysteries of life, not fighting wars! I don't want to be a general, I don't-I don't wanna send my friends off to die!

    Sub Starfleet for Star Trek and you get the idea.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Exactly my point "dark Trek has tended to go down one avenue" which has killed the idea of someone competent doing it.

    You are judging the idea on what has been done with it and not what could be done with it. It's like saying SNW is sht because JJ Trek was **** or because all the other Trek prequels were sht.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Evade


    Mariner, despite being a decade older than the rest of the lower deckers, is still the most childish and naive of the bunch. She will start fights that endanger others at the drop of a hat but can't own up to the responsibility of ordering others into dangerous situations.

    The very Irish perspective of "if we're nice enough we'll never have to fight" doesn't work in Star Trek, or real life. Being neutral doesn't mean you have no enemies, it means you have no friends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    And the Klingon pointed out the flaw in that a minute later.



  • Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I always liked the idea of Starfleet being the scientists with the big sticks.


    There to explore but with the technology to back them up... but they keep undermining it considering they never bloody defend Earth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 614 ✭✭✭eadrom


    Has war always been the default position for our imagination? Trying to think back to the 90s, I don’t remember that being so much the case. Maybe I was just too young to notice or I’m misremembering but I don’t remember anyone decrying the realism of Star Trek because they failed to show the “reality” of the darkness along the frontiers of utopia. 

    It’s a reflection of the time we live in now, and I get that sci-fi has a role to play there, but I’d still like Star Trek to dream of something better to be honest. Sure there are dangers to encounter, but encounter them as explorers and scientists.

    And yeah SNW is a bit light and bubbly. Love it, but there’s room for a more earnest take too. Just imagine something better than perpetual war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,951 ✭✭✭Evade


    Season 1 of TNG had a character from a planet with rape gangs so the darkness on the frontiers has always been there. War has been a theme throughout the 90s Star Treks too but it wasn't until the later seasons of DS9 that there was budget to do the battle scenes justice and it seems subsequent writers saw how well the last few seasons of DS9 were received and took the wrong lesson from them. STD is a case in point they wanted to be season 5 of DS9 from the outset but hadn't laid the groundwork for it or had the talent to pull it off at all really.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    War was always the default position in 90% of sci-fi and Star Trek was the exception. Star Trek also always showed the darker side of things and many of the best episodes of TOS were grim. It's only the Federation who are generally good guys in Trek.

    I would love to see Trek deal more with in universe politics again. Thats the part of DS9 that I miss not the battles. Picard absolutely wasted both the Romulan fallout and the Founder separatists by having them mashed in with stupid "big evil" plot lines.



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