General Rugby Discussion 3

ersatz · 28-09-2023 06:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169919#Comment_121169919

The French league is in good health, as is the Pro D2. The URC with the addition of the SA teams is developing into a successful model, maybe. Scotland and Wales have their own issues, mainly to do with governance and connecting the grassroots game to the pro game in a way that enables development. Easier said than done. England is a basket case that is more likely to be taken over by Gulf Sovereign Funds and money laundering that it is to rebuild the pro system to right the ship. The power of club owners relative to the union is a big problem, but for the size of the country the singular reliance on the school system is also a massive blockage, per EJ's point.

Podge_irl · 28-09-2023 08:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169919#Comment_121169919

There will never be a European league with France, so we can forget that.

A B&I league has oft been floated and it probably more likely now, but I doubt we'll want to give up on the Saffer teams (whatever about Italy).

pixelburp · 28-09-2023 10:02PM

As the topic is floating hypothetical tournaments, I'll spitball the opposite, perhaps crazier idea: What odds the reverse happening and some choice English clubs moving to the URC? Surely with South African franchises joining there's a degree of wriggle room for English clubs to argue their value in an already pan international competition?

Strand1970 · 29-09-2023 07:59AM

Urc with maybe 4 English regional teams, would work, leave the fantastic prem to its own devices. France have perhaps 50% of he Pro teams worldwide. Why on earth would they join an euro competition. T14 is flying. England rugby is in bad shape.

AbusesToilets · 29-09-2023 01:01PM

I wish the URC could incorporate teams from Spain and Portugal

sydthebeat · 29-09-2023 01:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172556#Comment_121172556

We incorporate teams from worse countries.......

Wales

pixelburp · 29-09-2023 01:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172556#Comment_121172556

Could happen, in theory if not those countries: URC expands enough into a premiership and championship structure; with promotion/relegation play offs between the two leagues.

Of course it wouldn't happen for the same reason similar won't happen with the 6 Nations: the Scots/Welsh and Italian teams wouldn't want the threat of financial purgatory in dropping down to slum it with the Spanish or English teams.

But again, if rugby is to grow dot dot dot...

AbusesToilets · 29-09-2023 03:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172631#Comment_121172631

Guaranteed financial support is the only way that the Gordion Knot can be solved. If you remover the financial penalty for relegation, an expanded competition becomes more viable. Equitable revenue sharing is needed to grow the sport.

ersatz · 29-09-2023 11:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170840#Comment_121170840

SA just shifted their best teams from one international club competition to another, no major governance impact on the domestic setup or for the test team. While some English club owners would probably love to join the URC it would be a suicide mission for the RFU and for the international team. It's a hill the English union should be ready to die on. And Im not sure the other 6N unions would support such a breakaway, which is what it would be..

jwof2006 · 29-09-2023 11:59PM

Italy shipping 96 points to the All Blacks is some mess given the amount of money that has been invested in Italian rugby over the last 20 years. Genuinely believe if the same resources were distributed to other developing European nations, European rugby would have gotten way more bang for their buck.

ersatz · 30-09-2023 04:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121175214#Comment_121175214

Portugal and Spain are good but honestly they are many, many years away form competing in the 6N. The closest Tier 2 team, and the one with the strongest argument for inclusion in tier 1 is Fiji. Between 7s and bringing in qualified former internationals they belong at the top table. I think they'd beat Italy 2 out of 3 too.

Pete_Cavan · 30-09-2023 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172631#Comment_121172631

There would be no need for two divisions with promotion/relegation, just two conferences with a few out of conference games (local derbies). The top four sides from each conference go into quarter finals. That way you avoid the damage that relegation can do.

Podge_irl · 01-10-2023 10:54AM

New Zealand beat South Africa 57-0 in 2017

South Africa beat England 58-10 in 2007

New Zealand beat Ireland 60-0 in 2012

New Zealand beat Wales 55-3 in 2003

New Zealand beat France 62-13 in a quarter final in 2015

These results happen. Rugby lends itself unusually well to scoreboards snowballing.

stephen_n · 01-10-2023 10:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180183#Comment_121180183

New Zealand rugby lends itself unusually well to scoreboards snowballing.

Podge_irl · 01-10-2023 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180196#Comment_121180196

It does, though we have also beaten Wales 54-10, Wales have beaten Scotland 51-3, France have beaten England 53-10 in Twickenham not 7 months ago.

Was the Italy result slightly worse? yeah sure, but they are all pretty horrific one-sided matches.

stephen_n · 01-10-2023 05:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180222#Comment_121180222

Well in fairness, Italy regularly ship 50 points in the 6N but I don’t think anyone has done that to them. NZ are probably the most ruthless team in the world, against opposition who don’t turn up.

ScissorPaperRock · 20-10-2023 10:03AM

Italy, Spain and Portugal reportedly planning a bid for the 2035 RWC.

https://www.rugbyworld.com/news/spanish-newspaper-discusses-a-joint-rugby-world-cup-bid-for-2035-161742

Could be pretty cool. Would be nice to have another tournament in Europe.

Japan also apparently interested in re-hosting. Would prefer the Italy, Spain and Portugal option.

Reckon we'll have reached a semi-final by then? 😂

pixelburp · 20-10-2023 10:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261947#Comment_121261947

That'd be an amazing way to show support for Spain and Portugal's development; and as World Cup destinations they'd be top tier in all respects. You'd have to imagine Italy on its own would be a shoe-in, but making it a cooperation with some Tier 2 nations is a great idea.

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-10-2023 11:40AM

Japan should be told to f*ck off.

Was it two games they couldn't fulfil last time due to monsoon issues?

No thanks.

pixelburp · 20-10-2023 12:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262291#Comment_121262291

In fairness, by 2035 September / October could still be Heatwave Season in Italy, Spain & Portugal, so you can't totally control the weather.

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-10-2023 12:49PM

I'm not asking anyone to control the weather. I'm saying the nation that couldn't fulfil two of their fixtures last time out shouldn't get another shot - especially so soon.

Podge_irl · 20-10-2023 01:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262582#Comment_121262582

Whatever about the weather, repeating the host so soon should be avoided if at all possible.

pixelburp · 20-10-2023 04:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262582#Comment_121262582

Wasn't that typhoon rather unprecedented? Anyway, as @Podge_irl says above all else they shouldn't be repeating the host that soon after the last time. A "Tier 2" World Cup would be a fairly spectacular occasion, I hope the idea gains momentum and it's not just a random bit of aimless chatter.

ersatz · 20-10-2023 06:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121263577#Comment_121263577

Do joint hosts automatically qualify?

Podge_irl · 20-10-2023 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264093#Comment_121264093

I suspect the answer is no one knows. Though worth noting that in 1995 it was nominally a Welsh tournament and they were the only automatic qualifiers on that basis.

randomname2005 · 20-10-2023 06:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264093#Comment_121264093

That was going to be my question. Would you be a fantastic set of locations, if potentially difficult to travel around across three countries. However, it would need Spain and Portugal to qualify automatically. And hope Spain don't mess up some paperwork and end up getting kicked out...

Podge_irl · 20-10-2023 08:02PM

I would add that in a 24 team tournament I'd be surprised if Spain and Portugal didn't both qualify anyway

pixelburp · 20-10-2023 08:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121264093#Comment_121264093

Goodness know how they'll figure it out, if the bid comes to be: that joint UK and Ireland euro kickball recently greenlit hasn't even decided how automatic qualification will work for 5 nations - or won't, as the case might be.

Italy would probably get the nod for sure by dint of already being automatic qualified anyway. As to the others, if it's gonna be 24 teams then Spain and Portugal could be added without disrupting Europe 1 and 2 too much.

OldRio · 24-10-2023 12:44PM

Nations champions Cup has been approved in Paris all the Tier 1 voted for it apart from Argentina.

What's the point? Apart from Cash.

Dave_The_Sheep · 24-10-2023 12:59PM

Just that.

General Rugby Discussion 3

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