Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

General Rugby Discussion 3

18788899193

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,706 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    There's a decent few "could have played pro rugby or intercounty GAA" players but can't think of any where 2 brothers both reached the peak of their respective sports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭pappyodaniel


    Ian Botham played international cricket for England and his grandson James Botham played international rugby for Wales.

    Ben Cohen played international rugby for England. His uncle George won the 1966 football World Cup for England.

    Still can't think of two brothers though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    his son also played underage rugby for england. was a professional cricketer, rugby union and rugby league player too at various times - was technically a professional rugby player in both codes at the same time as Leeds Tykes and Leeds Rhinos were partner clubs and he had a dual contract with them (league being a summer sport though, the seasons didnt overlap much)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭testtech05


    Not quite the same but similar to Shane O Leary above Jack Cartys brother Luke has played for the USA national team also



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    My first thought was league and rugby like the Burgess, Paul, Shelford and Frizzel brothers. And probably a few others especially in PI families.

    Bit of a random one from a kiwi perspective are Valerie and Steven Adams. Shes a 2 time Olympic shot put champion and he's played for 10 plus seasons in the NBA, currently with the Houston Rockets.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Mitch starc aussie cricketer, his brother is an olympic high/long jumper I think

    His wife Alyssa is the women's captain, her uncle was Ian healy, former men's test cricketer



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Getting completely away from rugby, Zacharie was a professional soccer player, his son Yannick Noah a professional tennis player and his son, Joakim Noah a professional basketballer. No pressure on Joakim's kids!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Ah well if we’re getting away from rugby, both my sisters represented Ireland in horse riding and I represented Ireland in fishing, does that count? lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    From the Irish Times :

    Damages awarded to former pupil over alleged rugby tour ‘hazing’, including shaving head and stripping naked

    Gabriel McConkey (19) sued a Northern Ireland grammar school’s governors for negligence and failure to supervise squad.

    A former pupil at one of Northern Ireland’s top grammar schools allegedly forced to strip naked and have his head shaved as part of “hazing” initiations on an overseas rugby tour is to receive more than £50,000 in damages, the Belfast High Court heard on Wednesday.The settlement was announced in Gabriel McConkey’s action over claims he also witnessed other boys from Methodist College Belfast perform acts on a sex toy at their base in Portugal.

    Mr McConkey (19) sued the school’s governors for alleged negligence and failure to properly supervise the senior rugby squad on the trip in December 2022. In court on Wednesday it was announced that he is to be paid £52,760 plus legal costs.

    Mr McConkey’s family and solicitor declared the outcome a vindication in taking the case. His mother, Sian Mawhinney, said: “The child that we sent on a school trip is not the child that returned home to us, either physically or mentally. He looked absolutely broken by what happened and what he witnessed.”

    Mr McConkey, from the Carryduff on the outskirts of Belfast, was aged 17 and in lower sixth form at Methody when selected to travel to a sports resort on the Algarve for warm-weather training. He alleged that older pupils subjected him and some of the other younger members of the squad to a series of so-called hazing incidents.

    According to the statement of claim he was coerced into having his head shaved as part of humiliating rituals. Mr McConkey was also forced to strip off, run along a stretch of path and jump into a swimming pool in a “naked mile” ritual, it was alleged. His lawyers contended that a further incident involved being made to witness other pupils perform acts on a sex toy while wearing women’s underwear.

    Proceedings were issued against the school’s board of governors for alleged failures to prevent the hazing episodes and to properly supervise pupils on the rugby tour. The action was listed for a three-day trial but Mr Justice Fowler was informed that a settlement had been reached on the terms disclosed.

    Mr McConkey, who is now studying sports coaching at Gloucestershire University, attended court with his family for the outcome. His mother recalled him being “in a state of trauma” following the trip. “As a result of all this Gabriel left school rugby because of the environment.”

    The family’s solicitor, Victoria Haddock of Phoenix Law, said: “Our client suffered distressing personal injury arising out of degrading, abusive incidents perpetrated on him during a Methodist College school trip. This occurred at a critical stage of his formative life, in the middle of his gateway exams.”

    Ms Haddock added: “He is content that the matter resolved today, and has been vindicated with settlement in his favour of £52,760.”

    Down with this sort of thing.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭bingobango12


    The naked part is a bit strange and the sex toy part is very very strange but the head shaving is normal enough. We all did this for JCT and SCT over 15 years ago, you didn't really have a choice. Don't know about 50k when similar has been done since teams of all sports went on tours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    whether the head shaving part is normal or not its a problem too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Yeah, this stuff is dumb and often dangerous with no upside other than older lads getting to lord it over younger lads in ways they experienced themselves. It's an offshoot of fragging in brit boarding schools and is rare enough in Irish schools in any kid of institutionalised form. It' definitely not normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    He must be a right little snowflake. Head shaving, nudie runs and silly crap with sex toys sounds harmless.

    If any of it was filmed and shared or posted online, different story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭bingobango12


    Meh, usually a bit of craic and can help with team building etc. Looks like a few things got taken too far in this example but don’t really see any issue with head shaving and the like, doesn’t harm anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Team building has zero to do with older lads shaving the younger lads in any group.

    I really can't see how anyone can attempt to condone it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    At least part of the incidents as described were placed online and thus had a more widespread and profound effect that such as may have been the case in the past.

    Of course, the public nature of the legal case has placed the plaintiff before a much larger audience.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Fragging is the deliberate or attempted killing of a soldier, usually a superior, by a fellow soldier.

    Fagging is probably what you meant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    You can tell the posters who held some terrified first year’s head in a toilet, flushed it and then called him a fag for crying about it.

    Also worth noting the lack of apology or acknowledgment of any kind from the school and the utterly spineless response from Ulster Rugby, so basically this is all regarded as grand and a bit of banter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    More like a bunch of lads were acting like ****, and taking pleasure in someone else's misery. **** them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭bingobango12


    Apologies, I didn’t read the article properly first time around and thought they all just shaved their heads as part of a pact kind of thing. The fact the older kids forced the younger one to completely changes things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Unless the last word is😉 relevant of course….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    From what I read in the article I really don't see what the big deal is. That sort of stuff happened in loads of teams I played in and coached over the years. In 4 different sports. It was all seen as a bit of fun. Kind of like kangaroo court sessions.

    Another poster mentioned that some of it ended up online. Now that changes things and makes a law suit and compensation perfectly valid. But I think whoever shared it should be the one paying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    the attitude of 'that happened in my day so its fine' is ridiculous and one that is hopefully on the way out

    i also feel very sorry for any of the young people you say you have coached where things like this have happened and you thought it was fine. i'll say it again, thats a disgusting attitude to have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Forcing a kid (a 17 year old, btw) to run around a holiday resort naked, then threatening to post a video of it online unless he shaves his head. This is OK, really?

    That is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who thinks otherwise only thinks so because they themselves abused and bullied weaker kids in exactly the same way and thought it was all a bit of bantz.

    If I had a child in that situation, you can be damn sure I'd be looking for heads to roll too.

    Absolute scumbags, and I'll repeat that it is shameful that Ulster Rugby have not taken any stance here. Did they learn nothing in 2018? Apparently not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I've kept in touch with a lot of them over the last 20 plus years and they all look back on those teams fondly. And we've all had a few laughs reminiscing about some of the things that happened. So I don't think you need to feel sorry for them. They'd probably tell you where you could stick your pity if you did say anything to them.

    Can you tell me what it was that you found so objectionable? Was it the head shaving? Was it the streaking? Or was it the playing with sex toys?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    it was the fact that they were co-erced (forced tbh) into doing it

    look pretty much everyone else thinks its unacceptable so that should say enough on this one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭ersatz




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    In the teams I was involved in, it was known that every the rookies would get a bit of hazing at their first away tournament. Everyone new it would happen including the parents (in the school teams) and everyone was fine with it. It was viewed as a rite of passage.

    Just because a few people here disagree with it doesn't mean their opinions are "right". Just like my lived experience doesn't mean I'm "right". I simply don't see how what happened is worth 50k in compensation. I'm blown away by that. And so are my mates when I spoke to them about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    this 'oh it is/was a rite of passage' argument is the biggest load of bollix i've ever heard. id say alot of the kids werent actually okay with it but just went along with it

    i really hope youre not involved with coaching kids anymore to be honest, or anyone for that matter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Kids have died from this type of sh*t in the US and in the UK. You can see why when adults defend it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    If they weren't ok with it, it got them out of their comfort zone and helped them grow. Never coached in Ireland, partly because of this soft, whiny mentality. And Irish society is very litigious in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Would you have any problem being forced into watching older team mates play with sex toys dressed in women’s underwear as either an individual or as a parent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I have been puzzled over the last few years why a school with the rugby history of M.C.B. has been AWOL in providing players. It seems that the school no longer approaches the game with any sense of value or importance. This activity will be another nail in it's coffin. The Governing body of the school will be loathe to fund any extra curricular rugby activity now and they would be difficult to persuade differently. 157 years of rugby history binned by morons.

    The Rugby culture of the school in my time there had a bit of this arseing about but more humourous than bullying young guys to do such creepy, bullying, juvenile and disturbing stuff. You could return to the hotel and find your bed stolen..or your shoes nailed to the floor. One guy in Canada had his trousers hauled up a huge flagpole.etc. I suspect that anyone who had tried that disgraceful stuff in my day would have had their clock cleaned very swiftly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭PMC83


    If they weren't ok with it, it got them out of their comfort zone and helped them grow

    If they weren't ok with it it clearly wasn't ok to begin with. Comfort zone? What are you on about. No one would be comfortable with that. Its absolute nonsense.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I presume you don't have kids, but if you do:

    Would you have any problem with your son being forced to run naked around a holiday resort, then told if he doesn't shave his head, there's a video of it going up on the internet? All while on a school-organised trip?

    Would you call him a "snowflake" if he arrived home upset?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    The naked run and the head shaving, I'd have no problem with. The filming would be an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    You didn't answer the question about calling him a snowflake so I presume the answer to that is "yes, I would".

    I find that extremely disturbing so I really hope you don't have kids and this is all hypothetical bluster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭phog


    There's no place in society where it can be deemed ok to film an U18 running naked, then use that footage as leverage for them to be forced to shave their head.

    If it happened to a child of mine, I want real action against those that did it and those that were supposed to be supervising the teens rather than seeking damages



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,702 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    In a statement Ulster Rugby, which runs the Danske Bank Ulster Schools' Cup, said it acknowledges the settlement made.

    "What is reported does not align with the values of rugby, or the behaviours we expect from those involved in the game," it added.

    "This is an issue for Methodist College Belfast, but we will be engaging with the school to ensure we promote rugby as an inclusive and enjoyable game for all."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w8ddjld4do#:~:text=A%20former%20pupil%20of%20Methodist,negligence%20and%20failure%20to%20supervise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭Blut2


    The head shaving, and streaking, if they were voluntary aren't anything too crazy. And can have team building positives in terms of shared experiences / identity.

    But the filming of the streaking and blackmail of using it to force the head shaving is completely wrong, theres no place for that kind of coercion in team building.

    And thats leaving aside the "perform[ing] acts on a sex toy while wearing women’s underwear", which is far more problematic. Thats just bizzare and completely inappropriate for an underage group of kids, theres no justification or defense of it whatsoever.

    Heads should roll, it shouldn't just be the financial pay out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭ersatz


    players/coaches— are you seeing players playing without mouth guards? I’ve come across it a couple of times where lads insist that it’s ok, and that some pros do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I’ve been playing without one the last 6/7 seasons. Had a bad throat infection that created a weird gag reflex and haven’t been able to manage one since



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,945 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I played without one for my last season. Had several teeth knocked out more than once while wearing one and think I forgot it one day, then just got used to playing without it. Figured they make eff all difference if a hit is hard enough anyway🤷🏻‍♂️



  • Advertisement
Advertisement