Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

196979899101

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    Consumption too high for both, price of fuel too low. I’d guess 7l/100 kms for the average petrol, 16/17kWh for the EV. Is petrol not 1.80+ these days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 158 ✭✭warrior00


    The cheapest petrol in the country today is 1.828



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    You are unlikely to exclusively charge your car at home, especially if you do long trips. Public charging in Ireland is an outright rip off currently - if memory serves me applegreen rapid is 75c/kWh. ESB destination 22kW chargers is approx. 50c/kWh on the membership plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Ferry company bans EV & hydrogen cars due to fire risk.


    Is this the first of many?


    (the euro tunnel currently bans CNG/LPG cars.)

    But , this is probably a rubbish news source as well.

    Let's add it to the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭Tazzimus




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,760 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Not a rubbish source, but has been raised multiple times already on various threads this year, usually by people with an anti-EV bias who never bother to read the facts. They are a tourist company rather than a point to point ferry company and their ships carry 9 cars. Not 900, not 90, but 9 🤣

    https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Havila-Polaris-ferry-2175

    Also, scroll down to the facts they list for their ships and savour the first one 😀, https://www.havilavoyages.com/the-ships

    Their competitor on the same route has no plans to ban EVs.

    As regards the tunnel and CNG/LPG cars, LPG cars represent less than 1% of the UK car fleet. I can't find any figures for how many new LPG cars were sold/converted in 2023. Is CNG used by cars in the UK or is it only used by trucks? BEVs on the other hand, represent 16% of new UK car sales and it's highly unlikely Eurotunnel will ban such a large growing section of its market because they read a few headlines in the Sun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    Screenshot_20231019-234440_Facebook.jpg

    Ballon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Don’t forget to factor in the loan repayments you would have for buying an EV that has a decent range- ie at least 30k for something that can do 250kms on a charge.

    Whereas you could buy an ICE for 5k cash that will have a range of 700kms per tank and no loan repayments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Why can they only run for 4hrs on battery, and then need fossil fuel.

    Is it because battery power isn't a complete replacement for a ice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭AmpMan


    I've done over 100,000km in our EV in 3 years and used the public charger 3/4 times.

    I do agree that public charging is too expensive. If I was going from Kildare to Donegal/mayo/west cork etc I would take the petrol car.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,760 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Why does the 30k have to be a loan and yet the 5k is cash? 😀

    So factor in a 25k loan. Also factor in an estimate for residual value and maintenance costs. But you'll only be able to crystal ball these.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,760 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The energy density of fossil fuel still way outperforms batteries for many modes of transport, eg. long haul trucking, aviation and shipping. I suspect that the batteries are used only when in port to reduce the toxic emissions from bunker fuel in populated areas.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You could buy an ICE for 30k and have the same loan. The 2nd hand EV market is coming down to your level. I guess we'll need a new name bangernomics doesn't sound right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s not my point though.

    My point is you can buy a 5K ICE that will do 700kms on a tank for cash whereas that is impossible in an EV as EVs with “long” ranges (300kms+) would require a loan for the majority, hence loan repayments would have to be factored in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Theres more chance the majority of people buying a car would have 5K cash available than 30K cash- hence having to get a loan for the EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭AmpMan


    Such a scutter argument .

    I recently had 45/50K to spend on a car.

    What difference does the fuel choice make ? By the way I bought a petrol and it sits on the driveway 99% of the time while I take the EV to work !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    That’s your opinion.

    I replied to a post about the cost of running an EV vs an ICE, where loan repayments were not factored into the cost of purchasing an EV which is a flaw.

    My point being you can get an ICE with no range anxiety for 5K cash whereas you can’t for an EV.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    That's not a feature of EVs, that's a function of buying any car that's around the same age of EVs that come with that kind of range. We're starting to see 20k used EVs with +250km range on the market, the price points are only going down and will eventually get there.

    I'm not sure many people are cross shopping a 5k banger vs 20k on an EV. I'd guess the person who evaluates spending 20k on the EV, is just as likely to spend 15k on an ICE. If you really want to factor in the loan payments you should only factor in the extra someone is willing to pay.

    To give an example, we were looking at buying a car in 2016. Our budget covered for payments of €400 a month. When we ended up buying an Ioniq we calculated the monthly costs were the same but with a car payment of €550 a month. After the 3 years were up we had the car paid off and were in a much better position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Your 300+ range is not so great when you factor in about getting home, reality is its now 150+ for a new EV and you need to factor in 3 years time its degraded by 10% so 135+, you could always stop at a charger and pay 73cent a kwh, which for most EVs its about 11 euro/100km



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Coming through Limerick today, seeing 184.9 to 187.9 for petrol

    That about the going rate everywhere?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,760 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Even at €11/100km that still works out cheaper than anyone averaging 6/100km or worse. And you'll only need that after you 300km of home-powered range has run out. So you'll be paying way less than that.

    I've public charged twice in Ireland in 6 months. Once out of curiosity to see how it works. And once I topped up with 5kW/h while doing the shopping just to make sure I had enough to get home.

    Battery degradation is a bit slower than you've posted, 2.3% per year.

    https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/running/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,196 ✭✭✭✭callaway92




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    You also need to factor in how EV's will be taxed in the future as ICE revenue declines.

    As things stand EV's pay nothing near an equal contribution towards roads maintenance.

    If petrol and diesel was taxed at 9% (same rate as electricity) and the duty paid reduced to zero ( which is what EV drivers pay) then the demand for EV's would be greatly diminished.

    We also have grants for buying EV's.

    This EV project has an awful long way to go yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Ugh almost sick of saying it, having spent 2 summers driving around France in a (non-tesla) EV. Not a bother. We are a single car household, and solely EV for almost 2 years.

    The charging infrastructure over there is perfect. The motorways are well equipped with Fast Chargers, and in enough quantities for no queue time. And fast enough chargers that you haven't even peed and gotten a coffee than the car is good to go. And they had installed more chargers between summer 2022 and Summer 23.

    Most villages have multiple AC charging points as well to facilitate destination charging. Our campsite even had free charging on site.

    The cost of charging was comparable or a bit less than the per km cost of Diesel or Petrol. The time overhead was similar. But the other 10 months of the year at home, with home charging we are winning financially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭9935452


    177.9 for both petrol and diesel near me yesterday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭mikeecho



    ah but.. it's the Telegraph.. and it doesn't suit the EV narrative, so obviously it's rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭Summitatem


    The new i5 550kms of range for €90k. New 530e 100kms of battery range for €70k.

    Unless one is getting free charging at work the phev looks attractive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Belfast to Killarney needs a 7min charge according to ABRP. Is portlaoise still limited to 50kwh, maybe you should be stopping somewhere with a lower SOC as well for faster charging.

    Avoiding the single chargers is the way to go if you're in a hurry all right.

    Screenshot_20231021-213826.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    But it is obviously rubbish. I haven't heard of anyone being refused a quote because the vehicle was an EV - and it's not as if the insurance industry has a problem refusing to insure, try getting insurance for an old car as a new driver.

    The design of new EVs such as MEB is that the traction battery is modular and protected by crumple structure. It is straightforward to determine if a battery module has suffered physical damage. It is a non issue.

    In any case new cars get written off all the time due to relatively light physical damage and new cars are not uninsurable. They don't even carry a loading.

    As I've said before, the Sun and the Telegraph are not honest brokers here and have taken an ideological position to oppose EVs. It's just another one of their positions in the culture war and it's tiresome.

    There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be critical of EVs such as charge speed, range, price and supporting infrastructure without inventing spurious ones.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Just a reminder to fill up before next Monday 1st April as excise duty rises again by 4c on P and 3c on D, I see a slight rise already in a lot of stations so when this duty increase filters through it will probably be over €1.80 in a lot.

    Next increase after that is then on 1st August by the same amounts, so possibly will be back up around €2 then.

    The below is a general 'signature' and not part of any post:

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.

    Public transport user? If you're sick of phantom ghost services on the 'official' RTI sources, check bustimes.org for actual 'real' RTI, if it's on their map it actually exists.



Advertisement