How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227658#Comment_121227658

My fuel bill was similar before (if you ran it legally, which I did not - I used green diesel and or kerosene in cheap old diesels)

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227897#Comment_121227897

In the netherlands at 2.30 a liter, it must make sense to have a zoe or ioniq28 when you consider loan repayments vs fuel cost. This is the thing, while I agree with your sentiments about moving to EV, you need some carrot, it can't be all stick. In most EU countries EVs have much less purchase tax. Here we pay 23% VAT and 7% VRT on EVs. (the vrt is discounted or zero below 50k)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227898#Comment_121227898

The sun is one of the worst anti-ev rags out there.

unkel

@ELM327 - "The sun is one of the worst anti-ev rags out there."

You'd think the sun with all the free PV it gives us, would support us using that for our EVs?

mikeecho

https://electrek.co/2023/10/17/half-of-ev-owners-will-go-back-to-an-ice-vehicle-not-counting-you-tesla-drivers-study/

Anyone that I know who has a full EV , also has an ice.

Because.. the EV isn't as convenient.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256121#Comment_121256121

Were they all 1 car families beforehand and after they bought the EV they bought the ICE ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256121#Comment_121256121

There may be some like that alright, but the transition is only going one way with EV sales about to overtake diesel sales and probably only 12-18 months from overtaking petrol sales

reubenreuben

Don't see many ev towing stuff? Are they suitable?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256170#Comment_121256170

Has already happened. Last month pure EVs outsold both petrols, diesels and hybrids for the first time in Ireland. This is going to be very quick. It will be 2025 in just over a year's time and barely anyone will then still be buying diesels.

And if you don't believe the official sales figures from SIMI, just open your eyes and look around you. BEVs everywhere. I was the first EV in my estate 7 years ago. I was the first 2 EV family in my estate 2-3 years ago. Now there are several and I'd say over 50% of all 2023 cars in my estate are pure electrical. This is in an average value estate of semi D houses in Lucan, one of the cheaper mostly privately owned suburbs of Dublin, so nothing posh or rich here.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256121#Comment_121256121

I appreciate that you don't know me but we are a single car EV household.

The only issue we've had with the car is when we visit the in-laws at the other end of the country it's annoying to organise charging. I've decided to pay to put in a charge point at their house. Public charge points are too expensive and are really best avoided tbh.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256410#Comment_121256410

I presume one of the earlier model Leaf, not the facelift one launched in 2018? You were brave taking that as your only family car. Maybe you almost never go far from home? Wouldn't suit many people as their only family car.

How on earth did you not see any real world savings though compared to a diesel? Zero maintenance (apart from tyres), cheaper tolls, tax, insurance. Almost free fuel.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256251#Comment_121256251

Yes up to 2500kg, you can filter by towing capacity on

https://ev-database.org

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256251#Comment_121256251

EVs are not suitable for towing unfortunately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQBRyR1JGBo

Only joking, they are superior of course even to diesels because they have 100% of their torque available at idle and far more torque than comparable diesels to begin with. And no gears. And no need to wait for turbos until they finally spin up sufficiently to contribute to torque

A car needs to have type approval for towing though and not all EVs were put forward in every country for towing type approval. So make sure to double check before you buy a particular EV, that it is approved for the towing you need.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256604#Comment_121256604

Thanks. But I've never seen one towing.

mykrodot

just sold my diesel car last week................and bought another diesel (a newer model). Living in rural Kerry its a must. I'm thrilled, its seriously light on fuel compared to my last one so I'm already saving on fuel despite the price. I drive in ECO mode all the time. I won't be changing from diesel anytime soon.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256153#Comment_121256153

The families I'm aware of, were 2 car households.

They replaced one car with a leaf, they still have it, but they will when say, that you need a diesel for the king journeys.

It's no fun having to stop and charge on a long journey when you're bored kids in the car, or on holidays and trying to work out where when& how to charge abroad.

I'm currently abroad in my oil burner.. I brimmed before I left, still on that same tank, and did 165km today.

I'll probably make it back to the ferry on the same tank, if I can't, it'll be a quick 10min splash & dash.

10min out of my holiday.. and no range anxiety.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256743#Comment_121256743

Driving abroad this summer was the same as previous years in the diesel. We even got slightly further into France on day 1 than we did other years. England was a 1 stopper in each direction. We spent just under €600 on public charging over the holidays whereas in the diesel that would have been almost €1100. On the way back we managed Caen to Dubin in the same day and still had enough time and room to buy 70 bottles of wine to help the year pass.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256844#Comment_121256844

€1,100 @ 1.80/l is 611L

@ 45mpg /. 6.3L/100km / 16km/L (approx)

.. you drove 6000km, and only had to plug in how many times.. ?

I've a70L tank.. doing that distance I would have visited a petrol station 9 or 10 times.

And if doing that distance, I'd probably be getting 50+mpg

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256743#Comment_121256743

It's no fun having to stop to charge on a long journey but the longer range EVs such as the 77kwh IDs Tesla LR and the like can do 350km easily from a full charge on the motorway. If you've the family in the car for that journey by and large it's a planned one. If you've family in the car you're stopping after 2-3hrs anyway and possibly sooner with small children. The last few long (300km) journeys I've stopped thinking I might charge but when I pulled in I didn't bother and just got my burger and then drove on.

Current EVs are not suitable for lots of types of drivers though..if you were a road warrior criss crossing the country on tight timelines they are not for you. However for many families they fit in nicely generally but they can be awkward at times like I mentioned (if destination charging isn't available at the end of a long journey especially).

I personally wouldn't take an EV on a holiday though because I wouldn't want to worry about finding chargers, downloading apps and making payments and possibly troubleshooting in a foreign language. The apps are a **** pain in the hole tbh. Holidays for me are about the destination not the journey and I would prefer to spend the least amount of expensive holiday time in an aire de service.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256743#Comment_121256743

My wife still has her petrol car but we never take it on long journeys. It only does around 2-3k a year. Nothing to do with size etc. Since I got an EV I've only ever driven the petrol one to the NCT centre and would have used it for all family driving prior to that.

Stopping for 15 mins on a 6hr drive isn't really an inconvenience.

A leaf is one of the worse EVs for long trips so wouldn't use that as a benchmark

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256953#Comment_121256953

England+ was just the first and last leg and we stopped more than once 😊. Usually 3500km out, 2500km knocking about, 4000km back, so about 10k give or take. We used to get 6l/100 in the 2.0 TDi. Charging stops this year were usually around every 3 hours for 30 minutes. Took the opportunity for my wife to walk the dog and myself and my daughter would take out the tennis rackets and knock about during that. Most nights we were able to destination charge, so we were able to arrive almost empty and leave full. Stopped maybe 50% more often than we would have with the diesel.

The one downside we did find was that because we were mainly stopping at Tesla SuCs, there wasn't always a McDs/BK/KFC/Ikea at that location. Tesla SuCs are more often co-located with hotels or non-fastfood dining. I make no apologies for our food choice when on the road 😀. We could have hit a few more fast food places if we'd been prepared to use other charging providers, eg Ionity or Chargemap, but there would have been a cost/convenience trade off with them.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121257001#Comment_121257001

The truth is it's not 15mins on a 6hr drive. It's a minimum of 35-40 mins on a 4.5 hour drive. Using ABRP which I have found to be very good, Belfast - Killarney is 4.5hrs and that requires at least half an hour on the charger at portlaoise, longer if it's in use.

The problem often really isn't the speed to charge, it's when you stop to charge you often don't know what the wait could be. I got caught out by not plugging in properly at the office which necessitated me stopping at M4 apple green on my way to see family. Unfortunately just before I arrived an old man in an ID4 pulled in. Couldn't work the charger, cards not accepted. He finally got it going and then decided to **** off into burger king for 50mins. I was there over an hour before I could add the 20% I needed to get going.

These days I leave on long journeys with 100% so I don't need a top up on route or if that's not possible I only stop at ionity or Barack Obama plaza and avoid the single chargers when I can.

mikeecho

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/10/18/electric-cars-ev-sleepwalking-into-disaster-battery-fires/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter&s=09#Echobox=1697617403-1

In the 00's we were told Diesel was the future and was going to save the planet.. even though the evidence did exist that diesel emmited nox.

we were lied to.

In the 10's & 20's were are being told the same about electric being the saviour.

But the facts around li-ion exist.

My personal belief, is that with the fire risk associated with EV, they will become uninsurable.

The channel tunnel doesn't allow CNG or LPG cars.. will the also ban EV.

Will ferries in the future allow them?

You can't even bring an iron onto a cruise ship for fear of a fire.

The future might tell a story of being sold a pup, in terms of li-ion.

Maybe, the next gen of battery will be different.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121257425#Comment_121257425

Both the Sun and the Telegraph are very anti EV and the stance seems to be ideology driven more than fact driven.

The risk of an EV going on fire is less than an ICE car. The problem is that once fire is established they are harder to extinguish. In a confined tunnel that point is moot really as all tunnel fires are hard to extinguish.

Even as an EV owner, I have an open mind regarding fire risk noting that it is often under or overplayed depending on the ideology of the person making the argument. Fire is a risk to be managed with likelihood and consequences important considerations in that matrix. The jury is out in my mind as to whether or not fire considerations will slow EV adoption.

But back to the article, the fact that Alison Pearson is making the case against EVs is not at all surprising with the conclusion almost certainly determined before the article was even conceived.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259749#Comment_121259749

Sun & Telegraph.. what national newspapers do you think we should listen to?

Or is it any press that looks sideways at an EV is Rubbish.

I'll tell you what.. I'll keep linking to articles, and you can keep dismissing them, and eventually we'll be left with the only reputable paper, the Uzbekistan Bugle.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259915#Comment_121259915

I don't trust the Sun or the Telegraph on EVs or indeed any environmental issues because they approach the topic with an agenda. The same way I wouldn't trust the IT, RTE or the Guardian because they also approach the topic with an agenda albeit from the other side. I'll admit it's very hard to find objective media coverage of EVs.

I could only read part of the article there as there is no way I'm subscribing to the Telegraph but Pearson overstates the risk and slathers in a thick coating of hyperbole.

EV fires although rare do happen though and they are hard to extinguish. We do have to determine what that risk is and how it is managed.

Viscount Aggro

OK

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259992#Comment_121259992

That's only because the bulk of them are under three years old as they really have only become good enough at a relatively affordable level since then.

The majority of cars that under 3 years old in any estate will be under finance.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121259967#Comment_121259967

Disable java in your browser, that usually shows the full article.

Busman Paddy Lasty

If you are in a tunnel fire, you're f*cked no matter what started it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Blanc_Tunnel_fire

"the driver realized something was wrong as cars coming in the opposite direction flashed their headlights at him; a glance in his mirrors showed white smoke coming out from under his cabin. This was not yet considered a fire emergency. In fact, there had been 16 other truck fires in the tunnel over the previous 35 years, always extinguished on the spot by the drivers."

krishantha

Guys, please check the table below. If you charge your EV from a home charger using different EV plans, I believe it would be better to use an EV car (with home charging) for cost savings. There are significant annual savings of €2,604 compared to a petrol car. Any thoughts?