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Boards assembly on drug use

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  • 08-10-2023 5:54pm
    #1


    The citizens assembly has finished their discussion & are due to meet again at the end of October to vote on the policy change recommendations.

    but how do boards users feel about drug policies in Ireland? What changes would you recommend (if any) and why?

    I myself would argue for legalising cannabis and potentially decriminalising some other drugs. I don’t think fully legalising all drugs is going to amount to anything positive. But it’s been demonstrated in other countries that decriminalising drug use (ie not criminalising people for having an addiction/making a bad decision in life) has had positive impacts.

    Besides what you’d like to see what do you think the recommendations from the citizens assembly will be? 🤔

    Ive watched and read some of what was discussed in the meetings but it’s a hard call. I could at the very least see them recommending decriminalising cannabis only. I don’t think we’re going to be joining Colorado or LA anytime soon!



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    five spots ten spots eights quarters nine bars

    jumpers for goalposts next goal winner

    marvellous



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭francois


    Legalization of cannabis is a no brainer. Opioid addicts should be able to access them on a script provided they interact with addiction services, removes the chaotic and criminal element searching for money for the next fix.

    Decriminalise possesion for small amounts of everything else. Psychedelics should also be allowed for research into various issues in mental health



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,112 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm probably going to be in the minority who thinks that most drugs should be legalised, specifically Cannabis, Cocaine, MDMA and a few others. I would be very against Opioids and Amphetamines being legalised, but perhaps decriminalised

    Now just to dispel any ideas anyone here has, I have never taken most of the drugs above and probably never will. I smoked weed a couple of times, decided it was sh!t and went back to the booze instead

    So why am I advocating for legalisation?

    Well I'm going to answer with another question, which is the bigger issue for society, drug usage or the criminal behaviour behind drug import and sales?

    Personally I believe that drug dealing is the bigger scourge upon society and gangs are callously using it to draw so many younger people into a life of crime and violence. Young lads see some gangster driving a fancy car and flashing the cash and offering a quick way to get rich, just drop a few parcels off somewhere, no worries

    I believe that legalisation of drug sales, but from non criminal sources, would deprive many of these gangs of their main source of income and would essentially put lot of dealers out of business

    This is why I don't think decriminalisation is enough, because the money still finds it's way into the hands of criminal gangs

    The obvious objection to this is that more people are likely to start taking drugs. Let me once again respond with a question, do you think anyone who is a drug addict now is concerned about the illegality if their behaviour. Do you think anyone likely to become an addict is concerned about the law?

    In the short term it probably will lead to some increases, which could largely be explained by the current statistics underestimating the true extent of drug usage

    By bringing drug usage into the open it will likely encourage more addicts to seek treatment

    As for where the drugs will come from, I think it would be counterproductive to strike some purchase agreement with the Cartels. There would probably need to be some semi state company setup to produce the drugs. I wouldn't trust the private sector with something so profitable, we've already seen how the tobacco companies and opioid companies went

    Since the drugs will be produced to the same standards as a pharmaceutical drug, the contents can be made less lethal and the dosage properly controlled, which should lead to far fewer drug related deaths

    I do think there should be some controls, only pharmacies should be able to sell legalised drugs and ID should be checked and recorded for every sale. I've always felt it was a mistake to allow shops to sell cigarettes and vaping products

    I suppose the other fringe benefit would be the boost to the tax revenue from legalised drugs. I imagine they'll incur excise duty similar to alcohol and tobacco. That'll definitely make for an interesting annual budget report 😂

    To be absolutely clear, I don't believe legalisation would "fix" everything. There will always people who get addicted to anything, and where there are rules people will always try to circumvent them. I mean, cigarettes and alcohol are legal and yet people still smuggle them in

    However I do think that in the long run, legalisation will alleviate the vast majority of the issues around drug usage and also significantly diminish the power of criminal gangs

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,265 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nice try Garda



  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Seamus4life


    No demand, no drug trade so just kill all the addicts?



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  • insightful contribution, thanks very much for sharing

    🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,742 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    There should be a completely zero tolerance on drug use and anyone found in possession of any amount of drugs should be dealt the full force of the law



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,396 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    The Citizens Assembly is just a talking shop. The decisions have already been made.

    It will then take up to two years for the box tickers to agree which boxes need to be ticked. That’s the opportunity to make a difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I can see them not convicting in court for cannabis possession for own use. No other changes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,159 ✭✭✭messinkiapina


    I do think it's daft to criminalise the personal use of anything. Legislation for softer drugs seems reasonable.

    Is there any chance that will actually happen? Typically we follow the UK's lead on these things rather than the likes of Portugal/Malta etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 81,988 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I've been in parts of US where it has been half ass legalised for 'medicinal' use and the open air pretty much every single place you go is stinking of potent weed, it's disgusting, it gets worse than tobacco smoke. I've no problem with cannabis being legalised but only in the comfort of your own home or say a cannabis club. If legalised behind closed doors there would need to be a €200 fine for public use for me to support it.





  • Agree there definitely think sticking to in certain establishments or home, I wouldn’t be advocating for smoking in public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,396 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    We should be pushing for total no smoking/vaping. Why should 50% of people have to put up with a smell that they hate? And it’s better for your health. It would be a world first but we’ve done that before quite successfully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    It's a " Bad Gateway " . ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    It Masks the smell of sweaty bo bo from delinquents

    wouldn’t you agree



  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Absolutely zero chances should be given to drug users or dealers. Build more prisons and fill them up especially with the cocaine users in well off areas who look down their noses at drug users from working class areas and call them junkie scum etc...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    My young lad was on holiday last summer in Lisbon and he said he was constantly being approached to buy drugs, even at 8 am in the morning going to the local shop you would be hassled. The bad gateway is preventing me linking an article in the Washington post about the decriminalisation of drugs in Portugal



  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    These are my exact thoughts. I was in New York only a couple of weeks back and the smell was atrocious. It put me right off ever going back.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog




  • Registered Users Posts: 608 ✭✭✭Tomaldo


    Where is the money going to come from to implement that policy, think of the extra gardai needed, legal and prison costs. We're still waiting for Thornton Hall to be built. There was uproar recently when a tourist was beaten up, complaints about lack of police to keep our streets safe. That should be the priority, not stopping people enjoying themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭jh79


    The same happened to be on my first foreign holiday in Spain and that was in the late 90's. It's nothing new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,789 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Yes to legalisation of weed, and also research into psyhcodelics, but I'm against legalising or decriminalising most other drugs. If you look at some of the cities in the United States where they've basically legalised all drugs and don't enforce any of the laws broken by drug addicts (like shoplifting, on-street encampments), it's just crazy. Things like fentanyl, tranq etc, no way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Even if we keep criminalizing minor drug possession, it shouldn't be a big deal. Stuff like meth or opioids are highly addictive. It doesn't matter what penalities are put on them, users will still use. That should be treated as a public health issue. Importing or dealing large amounts should be treated as far more serious.

    I once spent a day in a court waiting for a case I was a witness in to be called. I heard the judge deal with a lot of cases involving alcohol addiction (mainly public order cases). He was left with two choices each time. Refer them for treatment or imprison them. He didn't want to imprison them but he said that depending on the area there were either no treatment programs available or they were incredibly over subscribed.

    If we want to be serious about tackling drug addiction in this country we need to be more proactive. We need to have earlier interventions, better education, urban renewal programs and more treatment available. This shouldn't be something that rely on the Garda have to deal with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    I'd have a pretty simple approach. Taking illegal drugs is evil. Life in prison for selling any illegal drug, including cannabis. 10 years in prison for possession of any illegal drug, life in prison for 2nd offence. We're going to need more prisons!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    🤣😃🤣

    That's a bit too obvious for a rage bait post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,687 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I'm not sure in what world making Cocaine legal would be a good idea,

    Not a chance in hell should that ever been made legal absolute nightmare of a drug,



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,687 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    So drinking coffee . smoking & alcohol is fine butt weed is not ? Why would do you see it as different ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    You see them as different too, so you could ask yourself why that is. I would gladly ban alcohol if it were possible, but the genie is out of the bottle with that one unfortunately. I'd love to lock up alcoholics if there were some way to figure that out. Clean living, health and fitness, achieving difficult goals vs being a rancid scumbag who uses dirty and disgusting substances to buy a temporary state of fabricated happiness with the currency of your own physical and mental health? That's a tough one, don't know which one to plump for. Hmmmmmm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,687 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    What business is it of yours if people use substances to buy a temporary state of fabricated happiness ? If there not breaking the law then it shouldn't be a issue,

    Also its not fabricated happiness if your experiencing happiness your experiencing happiness, Is watching your favourite tv show or listening to music fabricated happiness ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,112 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    FWIW, I agree that cocaine is a scourge upon society and I'm not condoning it's use

    However, let me ask you something, what has the past decades of punishing drug usage and trying to curtail supply by busting drug dealers and importers accomplished?

    From where I stand, it seems to have accomplished exactly nothing

    It's pretty simple as to why, where there is demand for a product someone will come to supply that product. The fact that the product is illegal will only deter someone who is interested in keeping their business legal

    It's apparent that there's enough demand for drugs, and enough of a financial incentive to sell them that criminal gangs will make a business out of it

    The whole war on drugs thing has basically been trying to cut supply. But it's a sham really, the idea of a war is that it can eventually be won. There's this illusion that just one more arrested drug dealer or intercepted shipment will be the last and the whole drug trade will collapse

    The truth is that it's a forever war, and as long as a significant portion of the population wants to shove the stuff up their noses there will always be people willing to take the risk to supply it

    And it isn't like the gangs are just taking the hits and not punching back. When threatened they're more than willing to bring violence to the streets in order to force things back to the status quo

    That's why I think going after the supply side is pointless, and also why I think decriminalisation isn't enough

    Legalisation would not solve every drug related problem, I think anyone who believes that is a fool

    But it would remove the financial incentive for criminals and would also deprive them of their largest source of income (presuming demand could be met by legal means)

    I think legalisation is also a step towards lowering demand. I realise that seems counterintuitive, but it's been shown that investment in addiction therapy rather than imprisonment of addicts has far more positive outcomes

    I'm not under any illusions that every addict will suddenly turn themselves in for therapy, there will always be people who fall into destructive behaviour unfortunately. I do believe that in the long term we would be able to better treat addicts and lower the number of chronic drug users overall

    Ultimately, as a society we're going to have to accept that drugs are a problem of our own making and not something forced upon us. We need to look inwards for solutions, not simply think that we can cut supply and somehow tough it out as a society

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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