Boards assembly on drug use

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274858#Comment_121274858

I just don't see how any of that is some big improvement.

Drug users obviously don't care about the issues too much, otherwise they wouldn't be drug users.

You say there "I think the effects on everyone else would also be positive", but you didn't state how.

For some adult that has no connection to drug dealers or that circle, now there's a shop on the street that sells previously unavailable drugs. How is that a benefit?

How does placating existing drug users who'll continue to do what they do regardless of legalisation have some overall positive effect at the expense of exposing the entire population to the same drugs add up?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274860#Comment_121274860

Prescriptions are pretty much impossible to get so we have it approved but getting it is a different question. In terms of moving in circles, I think pretty much everyone's circle has people who smoke weed at this stage. I'm in a respectable role and know plenty who use cocaine or weed.

hymenelectra

Or perhaps another way to put it, is it akin to legalising the sale of alcohol to 14 year olds?

Yes, there are 14 year olds going out and getting their drink, regardless.

So you open government run off licences for the 14 to 18 year old bracket.

But is exposing the entire population worth the cost of doing such?

Like who's winning there, beyond off-licences, government or not?

Common sense would tell you what is likely to happen.

I know it's no perfect comparison, but similar in a cost versus benefit view.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274860#Comment_121274860

Not sure about the current prescription situation for cannabis in Ireland but I think it is quite limited as to who can qualify for using it.

Was on holidays in the same town in Portugal a number of times over the last few years and was surprised the second last time I was there to see a shop with cannabis products on one of the main streets. I had never noticed it before then and when in the area I was drawn to look at it on a number of occasions and never noticed it being busy or to be honest having any customers at all. I don't think many in favour of legalising cannabis wants the entire population to be exposed to it and I don't see why that would be the result. As I mentioned in my last post a legal supplier of drugs can be legislated to have standards for who they supply to and how they advertise and by taking market share from illegal suppliers they may help make access to more harmful drugs more difficult.

I see it as the opposite and see the positives of legalising cannabis as outsizing the potential negatives.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274924#Comment_121274924

Funny enough I've been to Portugal many a time, and I've never seen such drug pushing like anywhere else. Hand on heart, I'm not making it up for an argument.

The sheer amount of times you get approached being offered drugs is noteworthy. Broad daylight, anywhere. Especially Lisbon.

All coincidence, who knows?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274913#Comment_121274913

You seem to be missing the point about decriminalising or legalising cannabis. Users, like myself, if caught by the guards in possession, can be prosecuted and if convicted have a criminal record which can affect career prospects and lose the right to travel to certain countries, like the US.

Your arguments seems to be that because you don’t use drugs why should anyone else? Why did we bother decriminalising homosexuality if you are not gay? Because the people who do use it and are still able to fully function in this life don’t want to be criminalised. Simple.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274898#Comment_121274898

The improvement for current cannabis users is in the harm reduction to users by improved quality.

The improvement to potential new users of cannabis is improved quality causing less health damage and a more difficult task to find suppliers for under age and those showing signs of self harm as they could be legislated as not suitable to get access to cannabis through the legal system and the black market may be reduced simply through being out competed by the legal suppliers.

The improvement for society in general would be less money going to organised crime groups and supporting their anti social behavior.

The resources currently being used to control illegal drugs could be more focused on the more damaging ones rather than being wasted on controlling drugs that many see as less harmful than the currently legal alcohol and nicotine.

Hope that helps answer your questions.

Prescriptions are tricky to get, for a start my doctor isn’t go to start prescribing sone nice stuff for me. As it is he is extremely reluctant to prescribe sleeping aids and getting solpadeine in recovery of peritonitis was a feat in itself. So one way or another doctors are not goi g to be prescribing willy nilly, and people will have to demonstrate a serious addiction.

During a detox from very severe alcoholism, patienta are given a very limited decreasing dosage of Librium to lessen the more dangerous effects of a detox whilst not inducing a secondary addiction.

No doubt the prescribed drugs would be very expensive in comparison to the ones provided by criminals, so pre-addicted users who mightn’t get them free on the state would return to illegal drug dealers.

Doctors are never going to prescribe Cocaine or any drug which has a propensity to kill suddenly in a lot if ur instances they might be used. It just won’t happen the way wishful thinkers might believe.

Having added supplies of mind altering drugs will definitely not make the roads safer for any user. There are problems enough as it is.

I would say, think carefully before wishing we have a society with easier access to mind altering substances. It’s not as straightforward as people believe.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274981#Comment_121274981

But if its a recreational drug for you, and you still are willing to run that long list of risks....

Like, that's on you. They obviously aren't that big of deal to you.

Why should the entire country be put at exposure just for that?

I'm not trying to be mean to you, but from a cost benefit point of view, it's not much of an argument.

It reminds me of those shows on telly where people get reefed smuggling drugs in the likes of Thailand. Ridiculous risk. The fact that people decide to do that of their free will, knowing the consequences full well, thats on them. They wouldn't be the first people I'd be listening to about a country's drug policy's!

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275015#Comment_121275015

You’re just trolling. Go away.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275054#Comment_121275054

So some guy states that there are all these risks to his recreational drug use, implying they aren't actually much of an issue to him, I point it out as a weak argument for exposing the nation to the same drugs, and that equals trolling to you?

Fair enough, but you'll need a better argument than that for most people.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275089#Comment_121275089

I used the argument that why should I be made to feel like a criminal for growing a plant in Ireland in 2023 that is legal to grow in say, Canada?

I don’t give any money to a criminal organisation, I pay taxes on the equipment, seeds and utilities used and that are all perfectly legal to buy.

It’s my body, my life, the same as it’s your body and your life. What we do with them should be of no concern to anyone else.

What risks? I don’t smoke/vape. No risk there. I’ve had my liver tested, no risk there. I’m not suffering from any mental disorders, no risk there. I’m not spending all my income feeding my habit, no risk there. Why should I be criminalised?

You sound like the religious zealots who argued against the 8th amendment and same sex marriage. Go away.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275015#Comment_121275015

What do you mean by "the entire country is exposed to it"? Legalization and regulation has resulted in less teen usage in every other place I've seen data on. Drug dealers don't check IDs but regulated shops do.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275157#Comment_121275157

What else could I mean by "the entire country is exposed to it"?

How would the entire country NOT be exposed to it?

A shop that doesn't exist on a street versus a shop that does. Ask a marketing genius about the exposure of one versus the other.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275261#Comment_121275261

Well that clarified nothing. Sounds like you don't really know what you mean. Is the entire country exposed to cigarettes? They're in the shops but the number of smokers is declining year on year

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275141#Comment_121275141

Ah go way will you, a religious zealot!

Yeah you should be able to do whatever you like to yourself.

You should also have to face the consequences of your decisions, instead of lumping it onto everyone else.

Why does the rest of the country have to be exposed to these drugs? So as you feel better about your choices?

You've no bother giving drug dealers money as it is, fair play. You have your priorities. Stick to them.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275285#Comment_121275285

That's more than likely down to the expense of them.

So what argument are you making about cigarettes? That we should legalise other drugs, suffer the consequences, and then try to eradicate them over the course of decades too?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275288#Comment_121275288

The drugs you're referring to are already readily available across the population. Criminal consequences for users of said drugs doesn't work, that's the reality.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275292#Comment_121275292

No my point is what are you on about with your unspecific notion of "the entire country being exposed to it"?

But education and regulation has reduced the number of smokers. We should learn from it and prohibitions. Legalise and regulate. Every adult that wants it should be able to get it legally but strict limitations on things like advertising, sale and packaging while educating on the real risks in consuming it

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275261#Comment_121275261

I'm failing to understand your repeated claim that legalisation of cannabis would lead to the whole country being exposed to it. The real evidence for cannabis usage has shown that in countries where a more liberal approach has been taken the actual use of cannabis can be lower. Here is a link to the relevant Wikipedia page that has a figure for use of cannabis for Ireland and Portugal which is the example I mentioned earlier where I had seen a shop offering cannabis products and seen it was actually very quiet. The linked source puts the use of cannabis in Ireland at 7.1% and at the same time in Portugal showing a level of use of 5.1%. In spite of having no criminal prosecutions for recreational drug use and places that it can be bought legally Portugal has a significantly lower number of people using the drug.

thinkabouit

Well i guess a new approach is needed seen as current policy hasn’t worked really. Drugs are everywhere that’s reality.

Maybe follow the alcohol route

License to sell

Age limit 21

Taxed heavily ( €30 per gram, 50% tax)

Full traceability back to growers etc

Could that work?

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121275543#Comment_121275543

Ya. Only change I'd make is to keep the tax lower to begin with anyway to encourage people away from the black market. Let the old illegal trade routes die off a bit. Plus use some of the things we've learned with tobacco like no advertising and plain packaging.

Gloomtastic!

Well, it basically has to be better for your health.

Rule No. 1: No smoking/vaping. 100% of people know it is bad for you and some of them still do it.

Rule No. 2: No smell. 50% of people hate it. Why should they have to?

Good place to start.............

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273962#Comment_121273962

Fortunately the US did not take that position when they re-legalised alcohol after the end of prohibition. First they legalised alcohol, then the gangs (like Al Capone's gang etc) had to find some other business because there was no longer a need for a black market in alcohol. They didn't wait for the gangs to be dealt with before legalising alcohol, if they had done it that way, alcohol would still be illegal and still be a massive black market.

Cannabis should be dealt with in the same way. State resources could then be focused on those trafficking in harder drugs. In particular IMHO, all possible emphasis should be placed on preventing the development of new markets for opiods like fentanyl. That's what's turned places like Kensington, Philadelphia and parts of California into zombie infested wastelands.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121276718#Comment_121276718

Sorry, but Al Capone was born nearly 125 years ago. And prohibition only lasted from 1920 to 1933

Completely different time and situation.

I think more time and resources should be invested into "why do people take drugs (alcohol included)" and trying to fix "that" as opposed to stopping the flow of drugs (You cant stop the tide like)

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121274267#Comment_121274267

It would free up precious police time/resources. Recently there was uproar when a tourist was beaten up in Dublin, people complained (rightly so) there weren't enough gardai keeping our streets safe. A follow up programme on Virgin revealed shop owners in the city centre couldn't get a Garda to answer the phone when they rang about people robbing or disrupting their trade. Compare that to the coke-seizure in Cork, there were armed gardai, army rangers and customs officials, for what, to seize a substance people get enjoyment from. Nobody enjoys being robbed or assaulted. Fly-tipping isn't a good analogy, that creates eye-sores and possible rodent infestation.

cj maxx

Im on a uk website, not live yet , to hopefully get weed , legally, from them . I am unable to work and on 6 tablets a day for spasms plus tablets for neurological pain . I know from experience weed helps alot . For pain , appetite and general mood.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284916#Comment_121284916

Good luck with that. Have you ever tried growing your own?

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284987#Comment_121284987

No .I knew a couple of lads in England who tried. I also visited my cousin in Canada whose husband had a great setup for growing in his basement. He gave me a load of grass , but got a bit paranoid crossing back into the US and buried it at a tree at Niagara Falls 😷

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286947#Comment_121286947

Paranoia! 😂