Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

I'm currently living 500m from a bus stop in Meath and find it really convenient and close. My new house in the Midlands is about 3000m (3km, to be clear) from the nearest shop/pub/convenience and I see that as easily walkable/cyclable.

Apart from those who may be very elderly and/or infirm,I really can't see what the big deal is about needing to make your own way to a bus stop 600m away. That's about a 5 minute walk for the majority of people which is literally nothing.

I can't figure it out either. At worst case scenario, we're talking about an extra 4 minute walk (closer to 3 minutes if walking at a leisurely pace and not just strolling) if someones bus stop moves the full extra 300m away from it is currently. The extra 600m of steps for a return journey sounds fantastic for health and wellbeing alone.

Have city dwellers really got that lazy?

Bear in mind I'm discussing about the vast majority of people who are not very elderly or have any serious medical conditions that stops them from walking relatively short distances however it's unreasonable to have a stop every couple of hundred metres to ensure that a commute does not become absurdly long.

It’s been months, not weeks!

@loco_scolo is right to have issues about a bus stop. DCC and their traffic policy throughout the council district has always been about the frailest first.

How many hundreds of millions of euro have been spent upgrading every road crossing to disabled friendly?

A few years ago, they changed every traffic light in the city to a new, longer red light time to accommodate older/frailer people. Motorists are usually left sitting there at pedestrian crossings waiting for the lights to change green while the pedestrian has long since disappeared.

So when some unaccountable quango makes a pensioner or less-abled person walk an extra few hundred metres, they should be made accountable and change it back.

It’s black and white.

I'm surprised it hasn't been pointed out already, and that it needs to be pointed out at all, but an "increase in the population within 400m of bus services" does not mean a spacing of 400m between bus stops. It doesn't necessarily refer to a particular distance between stops at all it could relate to wider planning intentions. If that's the goal, stops would be placed based on residential density, or the potential for increased residential density (e.g. brownfield or redevelopment sites with potential for residential).

It implies that if you have two apartment blocks 1km apart, and lower density houses in between, a stop should be placed close to each apartment block (assuming that gives a higher population within 400m of the stops), regardless of the gap between the stops.

If the goal is an "increase in the population within 400m of bus services" but with the minimum number of stops, it could be read as recommending 800m between stops, to minimise the overlap in the 400m catchment area of each stop.

Having looked at the images posted above with the stops, the spacing looks reasonable apart from the stops at Newcomen Bridge. Ideally the stops would be on the Clontarf side of the canal, this mightn't work on the inbound side due to lack of space but would be fine on the outbound side.

I asked for the guideline which the 400m thing was based on and the quote which has been given doesn't say what was claimed. It is entirely reasonable to point that out. Now you are saying "the guidelines state 4-800m for spacing" which different to before.

I didn't defend the process here and I did comment on the spacing on North Strand as not being ideal. Not sure why you are getting so defensive.

To be clear, the bus stop that is 500m from me is in a decent sized town in Meath with a population of just under 7,000. It's certainly not rural. That particular bus stop is the one I use if travelling east bound and it's only 5 minutes walk away. The closest bus stop to alight from on the return journey is over 900m away and that is less than 10 minutes walk. Both are short walks. I'm from suburban Dublin originally but I've always walked when possible.

A few years ago, I was going to the theatre at Grand Canal Dock. I was getting the train to Pearse and then walking from there, about 800m......a short stroll of less than 10 minutes. Friends that were with me were wanting to get a taxi from the Grand Canal station for some bizarre reason, even though the walking distance is almost identical but you've the extra journey time to travel an extra stop so is a longer journey. Anyway, I said I'd hop off at Pearse and walk from there while they can continue on and get the taxi. Needless to say, I got there several minutes ahead of them. They literally could fathom idea of walking for less than ten minutes. They described the distance as being "miles"!

A 3km journey within the city is walkable in 35-45 minutes, depending on pace of walker, quicker again on Dublin Bikes. Why anyone would wait for a bus in such circumstances is beyond me.

the amount of people online blaming cycle lanes for the recent chaos on the roads is mad, they're making all the roads lethal apparently.

Looking at these drawings the inbound location for stop 618 is not accurate at all in both the existing location and proposed location. Looking here you'd think the stop was right at Newcommen Bridge but it's not. It at least 50-60 metres further down the road meaning it's even closer to stop 619 and a bigger gap to stop 616 which is the point of the original complaint.

On the outbound route stop 516 has now been moved to this location already so I assume that this is going to be a permanent move. It will make for a very small stop here compared to the old stop because there's a road right beside it and then the bridge. You'll barely get one bus at that location. The old 518 stop was again much closer to the Five Lamps junction and was much bigger as well. Ironically given the desire to have bus stops downstream of traffic lights this stop is right before two sets of traffic lights at Newcommen bridge. As the road on both sides of the bridge is the same width and the footpath is the same size it seems odd that this stop wasn't moved to the far side of the bridge. It would definitely even out the distances between the three stops 515, 516 and 519 so I think the justification for this location is a little weak.

Just before anybody responds I'm not against relocation of stops where necessary but the way this was done was very poor and they left themselves open to the complaints they are getting on it.

Cycled into town on this yesterday, it's still a mess after Fairview park, small bits and pieces of it open only, they're really taking their time on that side.

So you end up out on the road at times as the lane is blocked off with barriers and then you are under the gaze of furious motorists wondering why Eamon Ryan spend 100 million on these cycle lanes when we wont even use the bloody things.

Hopefully they get their arses in gear and get the inbound route finished soon.

a non-bus-stop post, it's been a while!

While I agree with you on the way things have been handled, I'm not sure what a better final solution would be. All stops inbound are in suitable locations in terms of the space available for a bus stop. Stop 618 obviously should be further out towards Fairview but there isn't really a suitable spot given the narrow footpaths. It has to be a good bit back from Newcomen Bridge and would then be too close to Stop 616.

Two potential solutions, (acknowledging, for the record, that nothing will change):

1) go back in time, consult residents & experts and don't ignore guidelines. Reorder spacing/location of all stops. Consult with Irish Rail and don't remove the stop at Preston Street, the shiny new entrance to Connolly Dart station!

Or

2) reinstate stops in North Strand which can be served by local routes only (6, 8, 10, 21, 22, 58), while the 5x D-Spine and 3x H-Spine routes should skip these stops to speed up service for the suburbs. Apply the same logic to every second stop which are served by numerous local and core routes.

For the record, there is plenty of room for bus stops in North Strand. The road carriage is 21m wide with 46m between junctions. Despite claiming lack of space in their justification document, it's a massive stretch.

Completely agree. They have those stupid barriers up every 50 metres just to stop you using them, even though they appear to be fine. Plus, there's been nobody working on them for ages, that I could see anyway.

you have to show us their version and how its to prove the facts are with you.