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30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,811 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ah, the old "known fact" beloved of Liveline callers and in other evidence free zones.

    You know drivers are required to drive to the conditions around them. If you can't manage to drive down a country road without slamming into a tree, you shouldn't be driving at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    @SeanW It's 2km between Chapelizod and Islandbridge on the R109 in Dublin, for example, and a similar distance between the last junction/lights on the N59 in Galway and the end of urban limits. These are just some examples.

    Well done on picking an example that actually proves the opposite of the argument you are trying to make. As part of the recent move to 30 km/h in Galway city the stretch of road you mention was actually increased to 60 km/h. It was one of a number of roads where the limit was increased within the urban area, some to 60 km/h and some to 80 km/h. So much for your claim that a 30km/h is going to be universally applied, even on long stretches of road without crossings or traffic lights......



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,476 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from one of the papers i found online which modelled a change in speed limits (this was done in simulations, not in real life)

    "5 CONCLUSIONS

    It is unlikely that imposing strict speed limits in urban areas has a significant influence on emissions of NOx or CO2. Concerning the impact on emissions of PM VeTESS results indicate that the exhaust from the diesel vehicles may show a significant decrease, whereas MEET functions assume a moderate increase. The effect on emissions of PM should be confirmed by further research, also focusing on the impact of acceleration or gear shifting behaviour."

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237327146_IMPACT_OF_30_KMH_ZONE_INTRODUCTION_ON_VEHICLE_EXHAUST_EMISSIONS_IN_URBAN_AREAS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    ministersoffice@health.gov.ie <ministersoffice@health.gov.ie>;

    Here it is and pretty well confirms what i am saying... the RSA used to build an manage and improve road networks, i think their mission statement was all principle routes M1 to M11 would be of a "standard" for complete length. They failed to do this and now its speed whearas a lot of the Irish are absolute death traps. Thats the problem, who will fix?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    Thats the problem, dont find the cause, 5 people killed by a tree on side of road and its ok get real. liveline we pay that tosser duffy, tubs, we have 3 times the politiciand per capita as most EU countriea and most of our roads were built for bicycles, it may save the world if we stopped driving cars. Basically you are saying that the people who put up the road signage do not know what they at. national roads for the most part should have capisity of 100 km per hour, thats just an example. the norm in the EU is the road has capisity for this. ours do not. Urben roads are a different conversation.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I've no idea what you're trying to say here.

    Getting motorways to a certain standard had nothing to do with people crashing into a tree on a wet night in a county that has no motorways! I've driven that road loads of times and never crashed (thankfully) so how exactly did the road cause those people to be killed - maybe the crash investigation report contains that information (you do have those, dont you?) are you just making unsubstantiated claims (which I'm assuming)?

    Plus I'm quite sure the RSA never designed, built or managed a road in their existence!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    FFS 🙄

    You may not like it but I seriously would contest that the tree or road was what led to the death of those unfortunates. In most cases, only one thing causes a crash and waffling on about Joe Duffy or the EU won't change that!

    As for national roads being 100km, travel abroad and you might be surprised!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    I think this conversation is about death rates on irish roads so why was the tree not removed after the fatality in the past. The RSA were not in existance when most of our roads were built as they were built by the brits who also likely planted the tree.

    afaik the Rsa are just responcible for N roads and they pretty have 100 km limit though alot are not even close to this standard.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    afaik the Rsa are just responcible for N roads and they pretty have 100 km limit though alot are not even close to this standard.

    Read this...




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    I have driven in half the countries in Europe, most people who listen to duffy never broke any rules. Duffy is the man? There should be no tree or pole within a few metres of a public road,you would never see this abroad. i will give an example, just a few days ago i noticed where there was a celtic housing estate where there is a footpath. The telephone poles are about 1ft/30cm outside the footpath on the public in a line of 4/5 in a line. our principle roads are not up to EU standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    What body is responsible for road infastructure on national routes?

    Is there anyone stating the required minimun required standard?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yeah, let's bulldoze every ditch around the country in case someone drives too fast for the conditions 🙄



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    I asked who is responsible? i thought RSA were part of NRA and i now just discovered the NRA no more. so it seems we have people responcible for safety and no organization looking at our road standards. There may be a new body?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    absolutely i agree, put up road barriers where needed an ditches at least a metre, trees 2/3 metres where speed say above 60km allowed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ....

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Lot of barriers on this road already. Just unlucky there none at this spot. Doesn't look especially more dangerous than much of the rest of the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    I don't know the road but the papers this tree resulted in a death before so it should have been removed. Having Gardai monitoring speeding a waste of money when it could be done with a few speed vans the technology is there. i do not see this as police work.

    Is there no organization in charge of road standards in ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    @SeanW Sadly, we are out numbered by those in favor of these ridiculous speed limits. I also think the continued comparisons of weight of cars vs. the weight of pedestrians/cyclists is kind of a David vs. Goliath style argument rooted in begrudgery and is akin to small man syndrome.

    Some of the posters here advocating these speed limits are also the same ones advocating the charges for pick up and drop offs at the airport. In other words, they see motorists as the enemy regardless of context and are so heavily indoctrinated into the green agenda underpinning these proposals.

    They want freedom of movement for pedestrians and cyclists in urban and suburban areas and to have all responsibilty and cost placed firmly on motorists. Darwin would be "proud".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ...

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,811 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How many trees do we need to remove?

    When a car crashes into a house or a school, do we need to remove the house or the school?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ....

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    I'm not going to wade into the mess this thread has become with some of the usual "cars are bad" brigade on one side and some people on the other side not making much sense either, but I do hope to put this one to bed.

    Responsibility for the design, building and maintenance of roads falls partly to Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), and partly to the Local Authorities. See here: https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/our-road-network/

    The RSA has no remit for such things.

    TII does have its own safety research department, which operates separately from the RSA, and which has produced a number of highly-detailed and informative reports. They include this one on contributory factors analysis for road traffic collisions: https://www.tii.ie/tii-library/road-safety/Road%20Safety%20Research/Collision-Contributory-Factors.pdf

    Unfortunately it's somewhat dated now (it was published in 2012), but it does contain many useful findings and insights which remain statistically valid.

    I'd highlight some of them here, but one member of the aforementioned brigade doesn't tend to be good with statistics, and I really don't have the appetite for another tiresome discussion in trying to set him right when he misinterprets and/or misrepresents things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    There should be a set standard for roads iS all i am saying. There are very strict standards for all vehicle traffic so have a srandard requirement. I dont think ki ever seen a school that a car could ever make contact with the actual buildiig. I expect road barriers would work for houses and if not widen the road the other side.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So you're willing to spend millions (billions?) on more road widenings and furniture so that people can drive at inappropriate speeds? Will that actually stop people dying on our roads by crashing into trees and other objects on the road?

    Wouldnt it be easier to get people to do some basic safety things when driving such as drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions and wear their feckin seat belt?

    Anyway, I thought we were discussing 30km/h zones in urban areas!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    Thats why we need people who can identify danger, a bit of awareneess and training for council engineers but then we would have to fix them. We are very good at talking after the event happens, generally these things are unfortunately forgotton fairly quickly. I think the council/traffic authority should have at least some liability in this area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ....

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You seem to want to blame everyone except the person behind the wheel. People need to have some level of responsibility for their actions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 e87228722


    i think we are talking about safety on our roads. the solution being talked about will mean that bicycles will be overtaking cars. Roads fit for purpose and absolutely limits. 30km where necessary and so on...



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