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Spain - Women World Cup Champions - 1 week later. (How not to manage a crises)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    That's creepy as fùck - how on earth are you defending that?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    This doesn't actually address his behaviour at all... Instead you've done an incredibly broad rant that dodges his behaviour which includes smearing the woman after the incident.

    You're the self professed incel, correct? This overt hatred of women is genuinely concerning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    It's fascinating to see the "biological sex matters" crowd suddenly tell us that biological sex doesn't matter.

    It's fascinating to see the "women in sport must be protected" crowd suddenly tell us that women in sport have no right to be protected.

    Fascinating, I tells ya.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Until I see a full unedited sequence, then I am saying that we are only seeing one side of the story. If his story is true and evidence exists that she grab him by the hips and lifted him towards her crotch then she should be expelled from football forever. If none exists then he should. Simples.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    "She should be expelled from football forever".

    With opinions like this I don't think we have to wonder why so many women are afraid to report sexual harassment, bullying or sexual assault by men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Equality. She has made serious accusations, he has countered. She should face the same fate as him if she is the aggressor. Surely that's fair?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    At this point, the burden of proof is upon you to prove what you're claiming so should be easy since you're adamant this happened.... The footage I've just watched includes him being inappropriate with half the team tbh including being the one lifting them up as he attempts to kiss them. Simples.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Look, I think yer man is completely OTT and comes across as a right prick. But.......... that video has clearly been edited. Posting that as evidence that she didn't engage with him prior to his embrace just undermines the whole case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well no. Rubiales would have been seen as a reformer for the Spanish FA. The guy he replaced and a whole bunch of others were arrested on corruption charges.

    He constantly stands up to La Liga who have absolutely no interest in Spanish football at international level. Most recently when their president tried to victim blame Vinny Junior for the consistent horrific racist abuse he received.

    Under his tenure the women were put on pay parity with the men, going further than any other association and granting them a percentage of sponsorship deals.

    The womens team have gone from a ill disciplined unprofessional mess to World Cup Champions.

    The charge against him during the rebellion was he didn't care about womens football, now you can argue about the appropriateness of his celebrations but there is no argument that he cares and is absolutely ecstatic at the victory, ironically it is going to cause his cancellation and with it in all probability womens football in Spain going backwards again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,052 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Another angle, there's just no proof that she was trying to lift him up. On top of this, he'd be sharing the footage far and wide if there was.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah. All the people so concerned about protecting women from trans women don't give a shìt about protecting women from cis men. Very telling.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Shameful. He was creepy as fùck towards half the team and now you're engaging in victim blaming.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    "If she is the aggressor" 🙄

    Christ, there is a video. It was broadcast worldwide.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    Where does the picture of him lifted up come from then? Is that another player lifting him/him jumping into her?And again with all the cameras in the world she exits one camera angle and we don't see the transition into the second angle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It doesn't matter. She has been clear she didn't consent to the kiss. His behaviour was creepy as fùck with Jenni Hermoso and other players. Your victim blaming is disgusting.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,939 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Well, I am shocked at the crossover between a certain rapists apologists and the Rubiales creep.

    Shocked I tell you.

    Have any of his defenders read Hermoso’s statement in full?



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    "It doesn't matter" . Says it all really. Destroy a man, his career and legacy because it's doesn't matter what she may have done. Classy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I don't see anyone defending him.

    He has made the allegation that she lifted him first and there is a video grab that may or may not show this.

    All people are asking is a for a verified full unedited genuine video of the whole interaction from start to finish. That will clear it up.

    At this stage, none of are surely stupid enough to believe every random image we see. Are we?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yep, apparently she's a liar and aggressor 😶

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    now you can argue about the appropriateness of his celebrations


    That’s one way of putting it 😒

    And sure your post definitely explains why the Spanish FA would threaten legal action against a player for speaking out about the behaviour she endured that would damage his reputation and the reputation of the Spanish FA, but even taking this single incident in isolation - his achievements don’t don’t count for shìt when he demonstrates such disrespect for his players that he didn’t even think about the position he put them in on the international stage with his behaviour towards them, fuelled by an attitude that because of his achievements, he was untouchable, indispensable, and everyone should be grateful for his involvement in the sport. He isn’t alone in the attitudes which fuelled his behaviour, and to suggest that the team couldn’t have achieved what they have achieved without being treated like crap is just nonsense really. The team have achieved what they did, in spite of how they were being treated.

    One has nothing to do with the other, but Hermano puts it better in her full statement:


    It is not up to me to evaluate communication and integrity practices, but I am sure that as the World Champion, we as a team do not deserve such a manipulative, hostile, and controlling culture. These types of incidents add to a long list of situations that the players have been denouncing in recent years.

    "This incident, one in which I have been involved, is the final straw and what everyone has been able to witness on live television during the celebration also comes with attitudes like the one we saw this morning and have been part of our team's daily life for years.

    https://www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/jennifer-hermoso-full-statement-luis-rubiales-rfef-spain



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    That's completely disingenuous. Nobody wants to see women hurt (or men hurt, come to that), but all footage I have seen shows that this was not something this particular woman needed protecting from. That is, regardless of what she said afterwards. You can't be assaulted after-the-fact because you decided you didn't like it after all. To call this an attack on a woman who needs protecting is to minimise any woman (or man) who has genuinely suffered an attack or genuinely needs protection whether it's from a trans or a cis person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,939 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,939 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    You don’t see anyone defending him, really? Have a read through the thread again and tell me if he has no defenders here.

    The usual crew are defending him, as they do with most people that assault women. Shame he wasn’t trans, they might have stoood up against him then.

    Funny that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I have absolutely no idea what 'trans' has got to do with the issue under discussion. Or why people might seek to drag it in?

    Let's see a genuine verified video of the full incident and then we can verify what we all think happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    If his story is true and evidence exists that she grab him by the hips and lifted him towards her crotch.


    Then you will never see that because it never happened. I watched the game and the celebrations and the awarding of the medals afterwords all live ffs.

    He is the liar not her. That creep should be sacked and never allowed near football again.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,000 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    This is the only way female football will get any real air time, it was the same when Australia faced Ireland, it was more off the field stuff that got coverage - the break up of Rushea LittleJohn and Katie McCabe resulted in a frosty reception for Katie's 'friend' Catlin Forde from Australia.


    Thing like this 'Spanish kiss' are jumped on by those with agendas who never have nor never will have any interest in women's football.

    Will this incident result in more women watching women's sports? As a result of the publicity?


    What will the conversations be?

    Girl A - Did you see the match?

    Girl B - Me too!

    --

    No, it will be all gossip and societal based because that will the main level of interest. It will have little to do with actual football. That is what women are interested in, not the sport itself.

    --

    As for the incident itself the Spanish FA fella Luis Rubiales - should have played the PR game and grovelled - it was not a place to show his cojones.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well what is the source and origin of the image in https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121032557/#Comment_121032557

    If true, the implication is that this is an AI generated image. If it is, that's a very serious allegation against the Spanish FA. Is that what you're saying?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The team have achieved what they did, in spite of how they were being treated.

    Nope, you can't win the elite trophies at world cup level with an ill disciplined and unprofessional squad of players.

    It's not a coincidence that they went from no hopers to World Champions once the trouble makers were weeded out from the squad.

    Again the people giving their hot takes now had absolutely no interest in what happened then or womens football in general, they are all over it now though, because there good fashioned online witch hunt to be had!

    The Spanish FA and the President are entitled to defend themselves, I think most people are sick to the teeth of straight to cancellation, do not pass go, do not get 200.

    It's going to be the absolute death knell of the vital essence that is/was Me Too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Let us not forget that Irish players accused Columbian players of physical abuse and walked off a pitch 20 mins into a match just a few weeks ago.


    Or that our own head coach has also been accused of abuse.


    The English womens team has been accused on multiple occasions as racist!


    The only upside in all this, the womens World Cup, is that it costing FIFA (the corrupt b##tards) a fortune in revenue and heaping negative media attention on sleazy football administrators, a win win for all of us I say!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,394 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    His general behaviour during the medal ceremony was well off. He was bear hugging the players way too strongly and invading their personal space. He's not their friend or confidant and many of the Spanish women probably barely even know the guy or have ever had a conversation with him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    The queen and infanta were also hugging and invading their personal space and I very much doubt they hang around regularly with the players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,406 ✭✭✭Augme


    The hugging isn't really a problem. Repeatedly kissing almost every single player was. It's extremely inappropriate and creepy behaviour. A man who behaves like that should not be in the position he is in. As for grabbing his crotch in the box, wtf? So weird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,394 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The queen and infanta's hugging was less full on - more of a warm embrace for each player. Rubiales was very hands on and physical - he seemed completely oblivious to the fact that it might be an inappropriate thing to do with younger women.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭hawley


    I've been involved in coaching soccer teams for the last fifteen years and it's getter harder and harder to get coaches. I don’t condone the actions of Rubiales, but it's so easy to have a go at people involved in refereeing, coaching and administration.

    I'm no longer involved with women's teams, but our women's team don't have a manager at the moment. Men are reluctant to get involved with women's teams now. If you're managing any underage team, expect plenty of abuse from parents and smart comments from players who are aged twelve and over. Referees are shouted at, swore at and threatened on a regular basis. We even saw Katie McCabe shouting at Vera Pauw during the World Cup and the squad snubbing VP at the post WC reception. It's always a one sided issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,551 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Of course the players know who is he for God sake.

    If you watch the video the majority of the embraces were initiated by the players.

    There is nothing in this guys history that points to him being some sort of chauvinist sex pest.

    He has done more for womens football in Spain then all his predecessors combined, in terms of conditions, pay and popularity. Exactly what Women in professional football want.

    The video for me clearly is of a guy that is absolute ecstatic of what they have achieved. I firmly believe the players had absolutely no problem with it until a problem was created.

    It's people like him that drive womens football forward to help them achieve the parity they crave. Actual actions, not soundbites or condescending applause.

    It's worth pointing out the President of the English FA didn't bother his hole going to the match.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,394 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    When I say 'know' the guy, I mean of course they know he is the President of the Spanish FA and have probably met him a few times, but that doesn't make him their close personal friend or confidant - and he is very much the supremo of Spanish football and in a position of authority.

    Even if he got carried away with over exuberant celebrations on the pitch, all he had to do was apologise to Hermoso and her team mates and admit he lost the run of himself after the game and didn't mean to invade their personal space or detract from their win.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,364 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I firmly believe the players had absolutely no problem with it until a problem was created.


    But it’s quite clear from Hermano’s account, that’s simply not true, it doesn’t matter whether you personally believe otherwise.

    It’s as though you imagine greatness cannot be achieved without making people suffer, and that’s simply not true either, and there are countless examples to draw from of greatness which has been achieved without treating anyone with disrespect, but rather by treating people with respect, and adhering to that discipline you mentioned previously. Because anyone who behaves as Rubiales did, and as the Spanish Football Federation did in threatening Hermano with legal action, doesn’t know the first thing about discipline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,000 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    If Luis Rubiales was clever he would have made a statement of contrition. Made a donation to a women's group. said how he has learnt of the experience. Played those with an agenda at their own game. But I think Rubiales pride would not let him do so, so he dug a deeper hole for himself. He has no chance now, I think.

    Not a hope in this day and age of optics and agenda setting, which he has now lost complete control of.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    "Less full on" that's the moral equivalent of telling the judge " well I only starved him to death, your honour, the other lad ate him'"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭Polar101


    If people like him are the ones driving womens' football forward, then something is badly wrong. You'd think it would be the players themselves who are in the main role in that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Suffer?

    What in the name of Jaysus are you talking about?

    15 players went on strike because they did not like the management teams "conservative" training methods.

    They publicly defied the whole management structure of the international setup and thought they knew better.

    It is up there as the greatest showing of petulance and unprofessional in modern football.

    We saw to a lesser extent in the Irish squad but no less professional.

    If womens football want parity with mens football the professionalism has to be there. It's clearly not.

    We saw Pep openly berate probably the best striker in the world at the moment last week. If he did that to a female player there would be the usual lunatics who have absolutely no interest in any sort of sport calling for his arrest.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's not my opinion he has done more for womens football in Spain than all of his predecessors combined.

    Including now being part of their first major international honour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,996 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    He did apologise the day after.

    Nothing was stopping the witch hunt and cancellation, because this is very little to do with an over excited peck on the lips.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He apologised, then backtracked and said the whole thing was consensual and made up quotes from her in a press release.

    An "over excited peck on the lips" to junior is going to get you in trouble absolutely anywhere. It was quite clearly and obviously not an appropriate thing to do and his behaviour since has been the worst possible at every turn. For gods sake, the Spanish FA were threatening legal action against the players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,387 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    It has alot to do with him claiming she gave him consent which she has countered as a lie. He has then threatening her, through the FA with suing her. He has dug his own grave with his lies and actions. You seem to have no sympathy for the woman and her treatment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,441 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




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