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A wonderful illustration showing how much public space we’ve handed over to cars

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,570 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The reason people post stats from other countries is because Ireland doesn't have stats on a lot of these things.

    Also countries with much bigger populations have much more data than Ireland does.

    UK would be the most similar to Ireland in terms of roads and rules. The US far less so.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    also, cargo bikes on the footpath? can't say i've ever seen any, not that that is any evidence in itself. but getting a cargo bike up and down off a footpath, and having to deal with the signage, bus stops, you name it, mounted in footpaths - that would seem like a strange choice to cycle a cargo bike that way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And again, resorting to the disingenuous playing of the "I don't understand" card.

    My previous username has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread, and the fact that you resorted to bringing it up here is disgusting behavior for somebody who is supposed to be a moderator. Presumably the intent was to draw other posters out to pile on me? (oh look, @Seth Brundlehas now joined in).

    My choice of username and my old avatar was deliberate. If I had used a completely unrelated name you would simply have accused me of trolling from behind a re-reg troll ID.

    But I'll leave it there. When someone who is supposed to be a mod resorts to this kind of behaviour then you know continuing to try and engage is pointless, and the thread has run it's course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    Well this thread has been on topic for the last 4 pages



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,518 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The most accurate thing about your picture is the fact that there is a car parked on the path.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    one thing i've wondered on occasion is why the EU could not promote something like the japanese kei car idea - little cars which are ideal for urban use, fine for doing the shopping in, etc.? maybe to do with the weight of the european car industry wanting to take cars in the opposite direction. many people own cars which don't go more than 10km from their house. a small electric car with a 50km range would be plenty for that bracket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,570 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    not having doors is a bit of a failing!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    This is a message to all of you: Back on topic, please. If I was taking action against any of you, I'd be taking action against all of you.

    Also: Revealing somebody's old user name isn't doxxing. You're at the exact same style of posting as you were before, so, I'm not sure what changing your name changes anyway.

    No replying to this message.

    -- moderator



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Does any organisation in Dublin track vehicle occupancy as part of traffic surveying? From what I can see, the canal cordon count, counts cars and not occupants. I remember it was done years ago on the quays, but that is not going to be representative of traffic as a whole. Would be interesting if there was a reasonably dependable estimate that average occupancy was say, 1.8; and how things like the school run affects that figure.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,776 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Screenshot_20230814_122718_Photos.jpg Screenshot_20230814_122738_Photos.jpg

    From my collection. The first is inside a pedestrian area that is very well covered with no-bicycle signs.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that second one is definitely inconsiderately parked, and it wouldn't have been hard with the first one to even just park it flush with the wall.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'd be interested in seeing the bye-law that prohibits bikes from the first photo given that it is on Mainguard St. in Galway which also has a Coke Bikes station and also sheffield stands on it (which according to Streetview are heavily used). These are both inside the signed no cycle zone. (Maybe it's just more of what one should expect from Galway LAs.)

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah, i did not realise the first one was on a pedestrianised street. that is a none too subtle detail; it's not as if people have to walk around the bikes into traffic to get past.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2722182,-9.0537879,3a,75y,221.02h,84.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCGIBe_WfkrUA_qnf5HfcLw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'd also point out that in the Streetview image of Mainguard Street, there are several motorbikes also parked inside the pedestrian zone which would take up as much space as a cargo bike, if not more. To my knowledge, there are usually always motorbikes here so not sure why they weren't mentioned in the previous "bikes on paths" post.

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    By way of practical example. This photo from the UK, but I recall similar signs at Gormanstown and the Curragh.

    The roads in the area are technically public roads and the miltary can only recommend that you not use them. But if you get hit by a dropshort or the like, on your own head be it (Pun sortof intended). We still had to post lookouts to call back to the firing line in case someone ignored the warning.

    image.png




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Imagine a member of the visually impaired community and having to negotiate around these obstacles on the footpath. Or in the case of the second, a wheelchair user.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,570 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Out of curiosity how would they negotiate the chair, or such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,570 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You can get it with doors.

    https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    We don't give any space to cars, we give it to the people who are using those cars. People want to get around easily, quickly and conveniently. The car allows us to do that.

    Pedestrians give way to cars a lot of the time because cars are heavy and relatively fast moving objects that don't stop as easily as people do.

    It's not realistic to believe we can give pedestrians the right to just stroll across the road at their convenience and not have a huge number of accidents.

    One group of people is travelling in a machine weighing over a ton at a relatively high speed. The other group is moving extremely slowly in comparison with only themselves to stop.

    It's not an "us vs them" issue as much as some people would like make it. It's just common sense practicality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Why should they have to walk anywhere to get past?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you have seen the rest of the street in streetview? i'll list some of the things i can see which people have to walk around on that street.

    a cafe right next door with tables out on the street.

    bike racks for private bikes about 20m away

    the galway coke bike sharing scheme has at least a dozen spots there too

    two shops opposite the cafe has placed flower pots outside their door

    stainless steel bollards running along one side of the street

    a roadworks sign

    several motorbikes parked across (rather than along) the street.

    mountain warehouse have several deckchairs left outside their shop.

    several bins

    if it is to be argued that the bike in that photo is inconsiderately parked for people with mobility issues, the whole street is a disaster for people with those issues.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Our streets are designed with people driving in mind. Our pavements are designed with people driving in mind. Our cycle lanes traditionally are designed with people driving in mind. We have allowed a car culture to dominate our streetscapes. Any change from this culture to improve it for people (rather than drivers) results in huge opposition. If it is not realistic then it is because you believe it to be but not everyone would agree with you on that.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,216 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the statement 'we don't give any space to cars, we give it to the people who are using those cars' makes no sense or is superficial to the point where it has no meaning.

    in order for people to use those cars, we have sacrificed a huge amount of public space to those cars. i've just been to the bottle bank, and decided to keep rough tabs on car occupancy on the cars that passed on the way back. i suspect the proportion of single occupancy cars i saw was about 60%+. that's a huge amount of public space given over to what is the most inefficient form of transport known.

    and regarding the other points - the law of the sea does not apply on roads, nor should it. it is not a case that we should design public infrastructure so that the larger and faster users get priority simply by dint of being larger and faster; and it's also worth noting that on the way back i passed about half a dozen cars parked in maybe 200m of cycle lane. which goes back to what Seth mentioned; if they stuck a physical kerb in to protect that cycle lane there'd be uproar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Taxis should be allowed only if a paying passenger is on board, i.e. the meter is running. This could be achieved by an occupied light which only came on if the meter was running.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Fine but you should be careful what you wish for, if you remove taxis from bus lanes you are left with the situation of

    a Intending passengers running across the bus lane to get in the taxi or alighting passengers running across the bus lane to get to the footpath

    or

    b Taxis pulling across the bus lane to the pavement to pick up the passenger or pulling across the bus lane to drop off the passenger

    Neither of which I would imagine is conducive to safety or efficiency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Many meter installations are linked to the roof sign, meter on available for hire = roofsign on, not available(hired) = roofsign off

    Problem with that is when you are on the way to collect a fare unless you have an over ride switch fitted then people try to flag you down.

    My problem with the over ride switch is remembering to turn the bloody thing off again, lost count of the number of people who flag the next taxi down because I'd forgotten that I'd over ridden the sign



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭eggy81


    Did they not bother with public transport in America?



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,260 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Public transport is in general regarded as a poor-mans alternative. Some cities e.g. New York have good rail systems but I did say "in general". Overall, it is quite under-invested and most of the rail network is used for freight. A very quick search online found this article (which I think is probably a good source) but it contains the following...

    Despite the US being the richest country on Earth, its urban transport systems are not world-leading. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) publishes an annual report card assessment on the state of US transport infrastructure. In 2021, it scored public transit in the US at just D-. There is no doubt that the US could do better.

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