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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Typical bit of selective nit picking of Russian history by Medvelev there.

    Kind of leaving out the mulitple times Ukraine was a seperate nation (often crushed violently by the Russians) or ignoring how the Kievan Rus (an 8th Century precursor to Ukraine) not only existed before Russia was a thing, but at it's height contained a vast chunk of what became Russia, right up to Finland.

    Medvelav also left out another entity between the Russian Empire and 1991. It rhymes with "Moviet Munion", but I guess he was's paying attention for that bit of History Class either (or his surrondings for the first couple decades of his life.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭Economics101


    I love this from Medvedev: "...Ukraine did not exist as a seoarate country before 1991. It was past of the Russian Empire". On that basis how many countries did not exist before some fairly recent dates? They were parts of the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese or other empires.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I can't see any kind of comprehensive negotiations with Russia, unless situation changes.

    Ukraine's offensive may not have achieved what they hoped as yet, but I think Russia would have to be doing much better than they are for Ukraine to be willing to negotiate loss of large amounts of their country.

    I believe that Peskov comment (you posted/referred to) is mostly a lie (they wanted all of Ukraine, and they still want all of Ukraine eventually). There is possibly one grain of truth, in that it may expose that Russia would be satisfied with a ceasefire agreement that will halt most of the war damage to the military/economy/society and fixes the lines, letting them keep what they hold as of today. Putin can call that a "win" for Russia (they may give up on other demands they have put out of demilitarising Ukraine, stopping it from joining NATO or eventually joining the EU).

    Russia is going to be a pariah in the West (i.e. ignored) for a long time. In fact I expect the interactions with the West will reduce further and this cut off will just continue to deepen. There's still a load of commerce going on and Western companies hedging their bets operating there which haven't been forced to stop as yet, but that will happen eventually.

    If Ukraine doesn't recognise these "new territories" and annexation of Crimea I don't think too many others will. Probably (edit: assuming Russia keeps some/all of the territory) not even their "friend" China will ever recognise it officially.

    It happens that a war loses heat and there's no big negotiations that resolve everything. Afair noone except Turkey themselves recognise the puppet in Turkish Cyprus or way they have moved a load of "planters" in there to better control it. There is no sign that mess will be resolved any time soon. N. and S. Korea are still armed to the teeth and pointing weapons at each other across a DMZ with N. Korea sometimes kidnapping people, launching drones over the border, testing missiles etc. + waving their nuclear willy about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭zig


    Yea, by his logic, Ireland still belongs to the UK. We did not exist until 1921.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I'd say the same for Russians, but they do not have choice...and if proof were needed, you only have to look at the nrs that left Russia to avoid mobilization. Bear in mind that the ones who left, were the ones who had the means to do so. and its still going on, Putin recently signed new laws making it crime to leave to avoid your duty to the motherland, and these laws carry serious penalty's bot in terms of cash fines and prison terms



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Maybe not now, at this moment, but down the road? For sure Ukraine will join NATO, when the conditions are fulfilled. Same with the EU, and the EU will want a strong bulwark against any future Russian aggression. Russia can never be trusted again, ever, Not under any circumstances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭rogber


    No one's disputing that Medvedev and all the others are vile individuals. All I'm saying is there are lines of communication, there always are in these conflicts.

    Look at our own island: even in the darkest days of the Troubles the IRA and Thatcher government had direct contact about the conflict.

    Conflicting sides talk. Finding basis for peace is a very different issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭Seanmadradubh


    You really didn't think that response through did you.

    You see unlike some posters here, I am not, nor do I consider myself to be, omniscient. Therefore I can make a prediction and also admit that I could be wrong, I'm surprised you find that a difficult concept to understand.

    Also there is a difference between calling a person idiotic and calling something they said idiotic, again not a difficult concept to understand.

    Finally, commenting on my saying "maybe they will, but I could be wrong" and you de facto calling me sensless and idiotic for it and in the very next line saying "none of us can predict the future" isn't that smart.

    Have a Nice Day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭rogber


    I totally support NATO and EU membership for Ukraine but let's face it neither look likely in the next few years. But yes, as you say, Russia can't be trusted, certainly not in its current form. Which does make negotiations very difficult



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭rogber


    Alternatively, if you're not trying to predict the future, avoid using the word "will" so much.

    Not that hard to understand either. Beats backtracking later



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    illusory superiority is something you overlooked during your verbose retort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 275 ✭✭Seanmadradubh




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Field east


    I reckon the translator must have got her/his tenses or whatever mixed up. If not then I expect Putin can explain the stats to his advantage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Field east


    ABSOLUTLY UNBELIEVABLE from Medvedev. Maybe it’s ok because , quiet often when a Russian says something they mean the opposite. The only problem with that strategy is that they never tell us which is it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Seems like she was saying that Ukrainian deaths(or at least obituaries) were 284k.

    The figures that Ukraine release are for Russian casualties. Numerous western sources support this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 878 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    When the UK had 383,700 military deaths including from the colonies in all of WW2 just shows the magnitude of this calamity for russia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Does it say there were 284k obituries posted to social media, or that obituries for 284k were posted to social media i.e. if two people posted something about the same person, was that counted as one or two? I got the impression it was the number posted, not the number posted about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,223 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Oh would you ever shut up. What was cultured about Bloody Sunday or ballymurphy. I’m sick of you making the Brits out to be saints when it comes to Ireland. It’s fking nauseating. You’re not Irish and clearly don’t have a clue about the history. What was cultured about the Brits in Kenya in the 50s to the 1960s when they imprisoned 1m without trial. Burned people alive, stuck glass bottles in every orifice, tortured , killed on the spot etc. The head of the British in Kenya said they were acting like soviet Russia and nazi Germany and if they must sin they must sin quietly. Present day Britain isn’t on the same level as Russia obviously but I’m sick of you constantly making them out to be saints regarding Ireland . You wouldn’t like it people were making Russia out to be saints in Ukraine . Learn a bit of Irish and british history and stop talking absolute shite over and over. And British flags aren’t flying in 26 counties because Irish people fought for independence not because the British were sound and thought oh we will leave as you’re implying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭rogber


    I think the Donegal poster fairly well responded to your claim about cultured and civilised Brits. I'm far from anti British but their treatment of Ireland down the centuries has quite a lot of parallels to Russia's attempt to suppress and erase Ukrainian national identity. You might want to educate yourself about it.

    However the point I wanted to make was different: the IRA and British government were sworn enemies that murdered each other frequently, but there were still always secret lines of communication.

    In the same way, I have little doubt Russia and Ukraine, if only via their allies, are occasionally sounding each other out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭rogber


    So it seems Ukraine thwarted an attempt to assassinate Zelensky that involved a Ukrainian traitor cooperating with the Russians (no direct link available, copied from the guardian):


    Ukraine’s security service said on Monday it had detained an informer accused of helping Russia plot an attack on President Volodymyr Zelenskiy as he visited a flood-hit region, according to AFP.

    The SBU security service said the detained woman was gathering intelligence to try to find out Zelenskiy’s itinerary before his visit to the southern Mykolaiv region.

    It published a blurred image of the woman being detained by masked officers in a kitchen, as well as some phone messages and handwritten notes about military activity.


    On Telegram, Zelenskiy said that the head of the SBU had updated him about the “fight against traitors”.


    The SBU said that Ukraine was aware of the plot ahead of time and had put in additional security measures during Zelenskiy’s visit. It alleged the suspect was helping Russia prepare a “massive airstrike on the Mykolaiv region”.


    She was allegedly seeking data on the location of electronic warfare systems and warehouses with ammunition.


    The SBU said its officers kept monitoring the suspect to get more information on her Russian handlers and her assignments. Officers then caught the woman “red-handed” as she attempted to pass intelligence data to Russian secret services, the SBU said.


    It said the woman lived in the small southern town of Ochakiv in the Mykolaiv region and formerly worked in a store at a military base there. She allegedly photographed locations and tried to get information from personal contacts in the area.


    She may face a charge of unauthorised dissemination of information about the movements of weapons and troops. If convicted, she could serve up to 12 years in prison.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    Big problem when fighting a neighbour have many collaborators a dark enemy probably causing more harm to UAF operations we will ever know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭zv2


    ...

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭zv2


    But why would she be 'frightened' and 'shocked' by Ukrainian deaths?

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I'm inclined to cast a cool eye over the Russian losses stats as reported by Ukraine, it would be natural to overemphasise these a bit and underreport your own losses. But I would broadly accept them as being in that trajectory.

    Whereas I would regard all reports from Russian sources on Ukr losses as unbridled propaganda full of untruths. Start even with the Russian ambassador in our own state, a completely untrustworthy liar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭TheRepentent




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    19th century Britain was as authoritarian and oppressive and paranoid an empire as ever stalked the earth. Look up the peterloo massacre perpetrated in vicious paranoia against their own people not to mention the countless atrocities they carried out in their colonies. Including the horrific genocide that they were able to conveniently dress up as a famine in this country. They only ‘softened’ a bit in the 20 th century due to the losses in World War One and the rising influence of America who put them back in their box. But the British empire was as evil and rapacious an empire as ever existed and would be to this day if they could still get away with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 832 ✭✭✭mike_cork




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Feigned concern..." Oh those poor Ukrainians, how dreadful !!! "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭deadduck


    This bullshit argument gets trotted out so often, and can be so easily dismissed (as you’ve just done), you’d wonder what the point is? By this logic, (again, as you’ve mentioned), the Ukrainians could make a case for laying claim to a large part of Russia. I feel like I’m naively missing something here…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    We don't know the context of the 'conversation'.

    The tweet reporting this was deleted, which should tell you all that you need to know.



This discussion has been closed.
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