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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I've got both cars set to precondition to 16C with AC every morning in summer. I find it keeps some fresh air going into the car when they aren't being used and that stops any damp or mould

    I'm winter I'll gradually raise the temp, first to 20C and then maybe 23C in the really cold months

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,043 ✭✭✭✭fits


    We charged a couple of times over 80% in France but we were doing long long days driving. Saved visiting a charger a third time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Looks like the statement that an EV fire was the suspected cause wasn't true. It was attributed to an unnamed coast guard sportsperson by a single news outlet

    Looks like RTE got caught up in the BS as well

    Maybe it was an EV that started it, but that's currently unknown and there's been no official statement saying it was suspected

    I've emailed feedback@rte.ie to request they correct the article. They'll probably ignore me but all we can do is try

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    There was a horrific accident locally where a VW commercial vehicle went on fire, yep, within hours it was an electric car...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Reading the AP article, the coast guard were saying the fire is difficult to extinguish given the number of cars ablaze in the hold

    It sounds like the cars weren't remotely made safe for transport before being loaded. They should have their fuel and fluids drained and batteries disconnected and removed

    The EVs should have been discharged and had HV batteries disconnected

    Sounds like none of that happened and the freighter was essentially a giant bomb just so it'd be quicker to load and unload the cars

    This is why maritime shipping is an absolute deathtrap 😬

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I imagine the situation went something like:

    Press: We understand there was a man from Cavan on the crew manifest.

    Coastguard: Yes, there was a man from Cavan on board

    Press: Could the man from Cavan have started the fire

    Coastguard: We have no information on how the fire started, we will investigate all possible causes including whether it was a man from Cavan

    Press Headline: Man from Cavan possible cause of fire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Those damn Cavan men starting fires again 😂

    I agree, I'd say some junior member of the coast guard got cornered for a statement and was asked a question in a way where they could only say yes and then the press just ran with the EV fire line

    As I said, maybe it was an EV that caused the fire, but that isn't known yet and it's entirely inappropriate for the press to speculate like that, particularly when there were only 25 EVs onboard versus almost 3,000 ICE cars

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    While I'm sure it's safer to effectively decommission cars prior to transport, essentially thats the state all cars / trucks are transported on ferries. Was on a ferry from pembroke to rosslare last week and because Sealink had cancelled all sailings, the ferry was packed to the hilt with cars and trucks so I would hate to be on board had a fire occurred.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭zg3409


    How in practice are you going to drain tanks, then load cars, then fill tanks, bleed fuel system and unload cars? I assume new cars have minimal fuel and cars going for scrap or moving to third world have minimal fuel. Unloading needs to be fast as time is money and these ships typically load up and go asap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah true, I guess a ferry tends to go over shorter distances so there's lower risk

    It also makes you wonder about the firefighting gear aboard the ship. Even if the EVs didn't start the fire, they're probably contributing to the blaze now along with the other vehicles

    You'd think the firefighting systems would be designed to handle a vehicle fire and could essentially flood the hold with foam and water

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    Got my car from japan 9th of june, followed it from japan, it stopped in Singapore, Cyprus , Malta , Spain and finally Belgium, there it got offloaded and put on another ship to Dublin,

    Picked it up with half tank of petrol and some trim in the back seat, drove it home and started putting the trim back , my guess was the 12 v was disconnected and the main traction battery also, as the cover was not replaced.

    My guess is, for short trips they do nothing, for the longer trips they have more time to open and disconnect things, some ports the stay was very short, less than a day, the ship was a few days in Belgium then onto Hamburg and Sweden, same ship is now off Wollongong https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:313143/zoom:10

    https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:313143/zoom:10 its amazing the number of ships at sea, you can see the shipping lanes if you zoom in a little, each colour is a different type of vessel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I get what you're saying but "takes too long" isn't an excuse for skipping on safety. If the vehicles can't be made safe before departure then the ship needs to be equipped to handle any emergencies en route

    This isn't an isolated incident, there was another fire onboard a car carrier in the Atlantic a few years ago

    And to be frank, EV fires are rare but they're incredibly intense and difficult to put out. If they can't handle a bunch of petrol cars then how's it going to go when a shop full of EVs goes up in flames?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭zg3409


    You abandon ship as was the case here.

    Once a fire has taken hold there is notyvh you can do. Smoke obscures visibility and even if crew are trained and have all the gear and the fire is detected quickly it can easily spread. They can't our out car fires easily in multi storey car parks, so on a ship things are far more difficult with a small crew like this ship. Try to tackle it, give up and call for help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    EVs have been transported on ships from Teslas departure ports and also out of Korea and China for several years now.

    Is it known what the safety record is like on those other routes (ie not leaving Germany).

    If there hasn't been a major incident like Felicity Ace or this weeks incident with Tesla deliveries or Korea/China.

    Is there lessons to be learnt from that or is it just pure luck.

    Also might we eventually figure a link between particular models of car and particular incidents.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Imagine if this fire turns out to be another Zafira, they've been recalled 3 times for fire risk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I was just thinking that myself, that car must have the highest kill/death ratio of any car ever made

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,432 ✭✭✭markpb


    I’m no maritime expert but it’s unlikely that any Zafiras had their engines running and PTC fans on while onboard the ship.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's the thing: The zafira that burnt the Cork shopping centre was not running either. The PTC heater on them have a permanent live from the battery probably due to cost cutting. High current DC relays are expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,636 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Looks like there were 500 EVs on board and also hundreds of Mercedes cars. I think that supports my speculation that this is a shipment of end of life bangers to Africa. God knows how many safety shortcuts would have been taken on a shipment like that. I hope time will tell.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    There were 3,783 vehicles on board, including 498 battery electric vehicles, a Tokyo-based spokesperson for K Line (Kawasaki Kisen Kaisha), which had chartered the vessel, said.

    He declined to say anything about the car brands, including whether or not it included any cars from Japanese manufacturers.

    Same report indicates they were new cars

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0728/1397001-dutch-cargo-ship-fire/

    Boat was headed to Singapore and supposedly contained cars from Mercedes, BMW and construction equipment



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,636 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Seems an incorrect translation from the orignal Dutch press release from ANP that doesn't mention they were new cars. Not saying they aren't though.

    Can't find the original press release from the Japanese charter company K Line in a two minute google, maybe someone else can? That could shed some light. I did see mention that there were several hundred Mercedes and also a large number of BMW and MINI. Which in fairness would point to brand new cars alright.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    There's this from the NL Times

    Both BMW and Mercedes use Bremerhaven to ship cars. VW's go through Emden.

    Port Said is the entry point the Suez canal, so I wouldn't take that as dumping point for old cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 MartyMcFly1989




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,322 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    My recollection of that incident is that the driver saw smoke and drove into the centre with it that way and abandoned it! 🤦‍♂️


    So, if that is true, it was actually running when it happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,316 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I remember the same, car was smoking before driver drove it into car park. Oops.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Cool. I remember now that it was the fan motor resistor pack and not a ptc on the Zafira. And it was pretty poor form from the driver to abandon it at the multistorey if it was already smoking when driven in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Interesting read......

    If shipping companies are "unprepared"

    What or who is to blame.....

    Should shippers have developed more understanding of how EV fires should be put out????.

    Is it vehicle makers not providing support in terms of vehicle knowledge?????

    Is it EV tech coming to market too fast for people who need to know the tech from a shipping point of view to keep up????.

    https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ev-technology-could-be-risk-under-prepared-maritime-shippers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    If the shipping industry are still playing catchup at this point, they only have themselves to blame. EVs have been shipped for, what, about 15 years? They'd want to pull their finger out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Sure they've been like that for years, crews trained to the absolute bare minimum, safety equipment outdated or broken and ships registered in countries with lax safety laws

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    From what I can see manufacturers have worked with fire departments in the past, so I can't see why they'd deny the shipping industry any chance for engagement or training

    I would imagine it's a basic tenant for any maritime insurance policy that if you're carrying cargo then you've taken the required precautions to handle it safely

    While I agree with the sentiment that it's probably better to abandon ship, it seems to be an expectation that the crew is capable of fighting a fire and preventing it from spreading

    It makes sense, a burning ship isn't just a danger to itself and it's crew, it poses a navigation risk to other ships and possibly even the shore. If a ship sinks in a busy shipping lane then it could partly block traffic and restrict the number of ships in that area.

    I suspect then that the insurance companies are going to turn around and demand that car carriers have better fire suppression systems or carry fewer EVs or both in future

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



This discussion has been closed.
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