Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Galway needs an hourly train to Dublin at least that can complete the journey in under 2 hours and that means double track Portarlington to Athlone and Athenry to Gakway. Then something has to be done about journey times between Limerick and Galway. Building new routes while the existing lines are archaic makes no sense.

You asked for some quotes. The Baxter one from the link is from James Jordan, head of planning, warehouse and distribution at Baxter on 2nd June.

“The development of an inland rail freight hub at Castlebar and the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor are key infrastructure enablers to support this drive to sustainability and will be fully supported by Baxter and other local businesses in the area.”

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/06/02/baxter-commence-rail-freight-from-mayo-to-waterford-port/

In relation to Rosslare I was referring to a quote from Glenn Carr who responded favourably to James Jordan's plans. Glenn is the Derector for Commercial Business units at Irish Rail and Irish Rail operates Rosslare port. According to his Linkedin profile he has "Direct responsibility for the ongoing management, investment and future development of the commercial businesses within Irish rail which includes; Rosslare Europort, Rail Freight and Navigator Road Haulage."

https://lk.linkedin.com/posts/glenn-carr-26485113_railfreight-railway-irishrail-activity-7070310295054770176-4AGM

You said that I've convinced myself that the AIRR will recommend opening the line, so are you suggesting that it wont? (every recent update from goverment suggests it will so not sure why you are making that point? - even today again in the Irish Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/07/17/atlantic-railway-spine-from-ballina-to-rosslare-and-higher-speed-intercity-travel-proposed-in-rail-review/

Then you say that even does recommend reopening that it will that it will mean nothing. So again you are unable to accept its predicted recommendations but you are out of touch with what is being reported.

In terms of it needing a business case Eamon Ryan said last week that he acknowledges that he will have to get it approved at cabinet level but is confident that there is "a real strong economic case now".

You said "Connecting Tuam might benefit Tuam itself but does nothing for the wider region." That makes no sense - if Tuam benefits from being connected to other towns then the other towns connected to Tuam must get some benefit.

The draft review hasn’t been published yet, everything here is based on speculation.

Taking the Irish Times article at face value, it says that Athenry to Claremorris will be included, however it says quicker line speeds between cities is an *integral* part of the report.

Reading posts here, you’d think the Dublin Metro is about to be abandoned in favour of WRC. I could understand the angst but there’s no basis for it.

I was accurate, the article says the spine from Ballina to Rosslare is included, and that the Athenry to Claremorris piece is integral to that spine. So it’s not my interpretation that this report is listing Athenry to Claremorris as integral to our overall rail strategy or Priority #1.

There are several mentions of Metro, so obviously the comparison is being drawn, even if my comment was exaggerated.

I'm sure Baxter would be happy for the government to pay for more rail network for the to potentially use, why wouldn't they? I'm sure there are plenty of companies across the country who want infrastructure built for them but doesn't mean it automatically happens, have a system to ensure only worthwhile projects get funded.

I don't see anything there actually showing any concrete plans for rail freight in Rosslare Europort. They do have plans for €100+ investment which doesn't involve rail freight and leaves limited space to accommodate it.

I made the point that the AIRR recommending reopening of WRC doesn't mean much as it is not part of any investment plans for the next decade. Being in the AIRR doesn't make a difference to the Business Case, cost v benefits is what matters and then it needs to have a better case than other projects.

Of course Baxter will be happy with different options and more networks. You asked for proof that they said it and I provided it.

I don't know the detail on what plans Rosslare has for specific spending. There has been some mention of the WRC connecting to Foynes as well so that may become more likely.

I'm only referencing what I'm reading. Eamon Ryan has been fairly consistent. He has ruled out north of Claremorris for rail for the foreseeable future but has maintained support for south of the town and has even held his ground on seeming to prioritise the WRC over the N17 even though he knows it upsets people. He said he wont give false promises so he deserves some credit for that.

Cost v benefit matters yes and he is confident he has the case to make taking everything into account. Nothing is guaranteed but lets see what happens.

Why the obsession with Rosslare? As has been pointed out it's mainly a Ro-Ro, almost nothing nothing to do with rail. There are plans for Rosslare, largely about facilities to service offshore wind generation. Nothing to do with rail. If you have ever been to Rosslare you would see that adapting it to handle container rail freight is virtually impossible

Meanwhile for Lo-Lo container traffic Waterford/Belview has huge potential. Prior to the collapse of Bell Lines in the 90s it handled 5 or 6 container trains a day to Dublin, Limerick and Cork, a large multiple of its present rail traffic.

The level of ignorance on Ballina-Rosslare is staggering.

given their trains would be serving bellview, then of course they would advocate for upgrades.

there is no empire building here by irish rail, irish rail were neither interested in rail freight or even rosslare for a long time, they are effectively being forced to invest in both so as to increase their commercial income.

nothing stinks or is out of order, rather simply proposing a spine that allows for multiple different opportunities for passengers and freight, there is no requirement to have an exact service between the 2 destinations mentioned.

The other thing which Rosslare Europort is missing to allow it operate rail freight is a rail connection with available capacity. It's only current rail connection is the mainline to Dublin but there isn't available paths on that north of Wicklow, possibly even further south than that. Even if additional capacity were to be created south of Bray, there is no scope for meaningful freight trains north of there.

The only realistic route for rail freight to Rosslare is via the South Wexford line. That would no doubt require another significant spend (reopening the line to Foynes is costing €60m for comparison). It would also involve freight trains passing Belview Port which already handles rail freight. So between WRC reopening, South Wexford line reopening and Rosslare Europort expansion and upgrades, it would cost several hundred million € for freight from Mayo to go through Rosslare.

The same money would allow for multiple meaningful improvements on the existing network, which would benefit more passengers and allow for greater rail freight usage. You would hope that the AIRR would recognise these things.

When it comes to governments the only report that counts is the latest/current one or in this case impending one. Even since the last one was submitted to government in 2020 the government has changed it approach to climate change and public transport. Varadkar has said as much.

The last report of the reports you mentioned said Tuam had a population of around 1,000 which just about sums up how credible that one was. Funny how you reference past ones in making your point but have already on a number of occasions called the next one "Toilet paper" without having seen it - quite contradictory.

Still waiting for your cost breakdown of the €100m you say will cover upgrading the existing lines instead of opening the WRC.

3m for a siding into Rosslare. Are you joking? It would involve much more than that. Have you ever been to Rosslare and seen the constraints to developing meaningful Lo-Lo capacity?