Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120789110#Comment_120789110

there is a route via sligo to dublin and then to rosslare from dublin, however given that requires travelling through the congested dublin area, it's not a goer for freight.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120789378#Comment_120789378

If the demand existed for rail freight to Sligo then IWG or XPO would have tried to bring in a Dublin-Sligo freight service at some stage.

It’s more pie-in-the-sky nonsense that does nothing except divert time and finding away from viable projects

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790330#Comment_120790330

Indeed. There are projects in the GDA that would carry in a day what these plans would carry in a year and they’re tied up in red tape and Departmental nonsense.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790345#Comment_120790345

It is possible that smaller projects receive attention at the same time as bigger ones. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

The projects you refer to also cost multiples of what WRC phase 2 would cost, for example.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790922#Comment_120790922

The other half of the equation is benefit

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790330#Comment_120790330

they may have tried for all we know.

there isn't enough wagons anyway at the moment for any greater extension of freight.

If Shannon can't justify a rail connection I think it's a safe bet Knock hasn't a snowballs chance

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2023/07/02/rail-review-considers-improving-connectivity-to-shannon-airport/

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801755#Comment_120801755

Jesus wept. Deputy Leddin (Green Party) is just as bad as any local gombeen politician. How can anyone go on about a rail conection to Shannon given the totally inexcusable absence of any sort of rail/metro/tram connectivity at Dublin, which makes getting to and from that airport a hugely expensive and time-consuming effort?

Enough to put me off any developments related to the WRC (or South Wexford) until the really urgen problems of the greater Dublin area are tackled.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802459#Comment_120802459

Jesus not this nonsense again

Because of the failures of dublin the rest or the country cant have any infrastructure?

We shouldnt build any bus lanes outside dublin either until busconnects is done.

Luas is at capacity and we need more lines to serve other parts of the city - cant possibly justify a tram in cork until dublin gets another line..

Etc etc

marno21

The cost benefit of a train to Shannon Airport would be poor. Shannon Airport is reachable by bus from Limerick in a very respectable time, and a rail service wouldn't offer much benefit time wise, and there definitely isn't a need for a railway line on capacity grounds.

It's the old Green "steel wheels good rubber wheels bad" trope.

Same reason an upgraded N17 with decent bus services seems unpalatable, but a horrendous rail alignment weaving around the north west is a great idea.

Despite the fact that the Galway-Limerick train is slower than the bus, on a better track than exists north of Claremorris.

Hotblack Desiato

The projects that deliver the greatest benefit should obviously be prioritised.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120802492#Comment_120802492

That is a complete distortion of what I was saying. Given that funds are limited you have to prioritise. You don't need a fancy cost benefit analysis to see that talking about rail links to Shannon is complete garbage, given the huge deficiencies elsewhere.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803277#Comment_120803277

Funds are far from limited - we are awash with cash. And there is a rail link to Dublin in planning too, its called Metrolink.

The idea that a potential rail link to Shannon would impact the funding for Metrolink is total nonsense.

brianc89

Let's be honest, a rail extension to Shannon wouldn't succeed without double tracking the full Limerick network. But we shouldn't exclude the possibility this can happen.

What does this even mean?

To increase the viability of a potential rail link, the Strategy recommends a focused approach to land use to support rail-based transport-oriented development,” the Green Party leader said.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801755#Comment_120801755

Just to be clear, I only previously suggested a "Knock airport" rail connection on the assumption that WRC was built and required a new alignment!!!

Clearly there are no plans for WRC north of Claremorris in the medium term.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805295#Comment_120805295

I guess it means that ways should be kept clear for potential rail lines, and that housing or business development should take place near any existing or potential stations. A good example of this would be the Laughanstown Luas stop which was built to facilitate development which is only just happening. The more development that happens near the line, the more viable it is.

An example of the opposite approach would be the approach taken back in the day by Galway County Council in zoning large amounts of land for business development in Ballybrit/Parkmore which is nowhere near a train line. Hopefully we have learned since then, but I wouldn't be too sure.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120803277#Comment_120803277

That's as maybe - but I read it in exactly the same way as timmynyc did. It may be that you need to rephrase your post, or review how you express yourself.

I'm all in favour of a connection between Dublin and its airport; but there seems to be a lobby that is capable of stymying big infrastructure projects that do not involve road traffic.

As well as the lack of a rail connection to the airport, I'd mention the difficulties around getting the Luas into existence; IIRC it took many years to get the two lines into existence, and weren't there problems around losing EU funding along the way? Not to mention the Western Rail Corridor, and re-opening the Cork to Youghal railway line. I for one can see benefits arising from re-opening the Athenry to Claremorris section of the WRC, and running trains all the way from Ballina to Limerick Junction, with connections onward to both Cork/Kerry and Waterford/Rosslare.

The Port Tunnel was presented to us as though it was the seventh wonder of the world, but the reality is that it is a short tunnel, and of its type, not very difficult piece of engineering. To put it in context, the Faroe Islands (with something like 50,000 people) are currently building just under 20km of road tunnels, to add to the 60km or so of road tunnels already in service. Among them is a 10km-long tunnel to Sandoy, an island with just 1,200 inhabitants, which will open this coming December, while a 25km-long tunnel to Suðuroy (with all of 4,600 people living there) is in the planning stages.

In other words, this idea we have that we shouldn't put resources into infrastructure outside of Dublin is absolutely ridiculous - it is time we moved on from this anti-social 19th-century laissez-faire ideology; always remembering that even then, even in Ireland, the British state poured huge resources into building infrastructure in Ireland - look at our ports, the (mostly disappeared) railway network, bridges, canal, river and lake navegation. It often seems to me that public works since independence were built with official Ireland gritting its teeth and complaining about the waste of money rather than celebrating the fact that the new infrastructure would improve the lives of the many.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120801755#Comment_120801755

True. But maybe we could have a funicular?

Decades

https://www.facebook.com/IRDKiltimagh/posts/pfbid02LTD9pRHkXYzNFderdKY4ERc9g8UgxqLLe1HtZvpBv2EhY8WU5AJn5RLKbtrFH6ybl

IRD Kiltimaugh seems to be really struggling to staff the Velorail project. The vacancy advert has been running, on and off, since last May. Nothing about this project seems to be right IMO. A complete waste of money. We are in Toy Show The Musical territory with this when it comes to due diligence and public funding.

Hotblack Desiato

No point taking a job with an operation which is inevitably going to go bang in short order unless you're some sort of masochist.

I just took a look at the site,

• it runs once a day, Fri, sat and Sun at 3pm.
• A velorail is 40 eur.
• If you're elderly you must be accompanied by a guardian.....no idea what they define as elderly. So you could have a valid licence, drive their with your wife and be denied entry as you don't have a guardian haha
• You must travel in convoy
• You must travel at the speed they dictate
• and so on

Its so fking stupid lol

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812603#Comment_120812603

Unfortunately the jokes on us as it seems obvious that public money was thrown at this project to appease WOT who wanted it to "Dog in the manger" a Greenway.

I hope the C&AG takes a look at this at some stage.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120805617#Comment_120805617

Most of the infrastructure you attribute to the British state was built by private companies though.

Hotblack Desiato

Velofail.

In a properly run country that sort of thing would never happen but if somehow it did, those responsible would go to jail.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815696#Comment_120815696

Indeed.

Post-independence, the massive anti-urban bias of official Ireland inevitably led to a failure to provide infrastructure. This attitude continues to this day.

Westernview

Ireland West Airport CEO highlighting the importance of road and rail infrastructure to the airport.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/07/07/improved-transport-infrastructure-critical-for-future-of-ireland-west-airport/

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818033#Comment_120818033

The head of an airport talking about sustainable transport - what a joke.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819228#Comment_120819228

What do you want him to do - close down the airport? Maybe all the factories and industry failing to achieve net zero should close down as well.

Battery powered planes are not viable yet so he is entitled to promote sustainability whenever he see it, especially if it's connected to how people get to and from the airport.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819228#Comment_120819228

Aviation accounts for c. 2% of global emissions, and is notoriously hard to decarbonise due to energy density requirements for flight.

Perhaps it would be meritorious to focus on the other 98%, especially in a country that burns coal to make power and has 2% of its rail network electrified.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818033#Comment_120818033

It would help if they hadn't built an airport in the wrong place due to the ravings of a priest.