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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Ukraine has only received 15% of the demining and engineering equipment needed and promised by western partners before the counter offensive , getting to be a common theme lately, getting promised everything but the kitchen sink ,and yet barely gets what's been promised,from vehicles, weapons, artillery shells, this is causing real world issues for the Ukrainians ,






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    But wondering will it be worse for Ukraine whenever this ends in regards to lives. Not lost so far but let's look at the amount of Russian dead which is considerable. Ukrainian dead there is a lot but then you have Russia who have taken 700k kids etc. from Ukraine. Let's say these are not returned to Ukraine then that's a considerable proportion of young people take from there who might end up staying in Russia and having kids etc down the line in Russia so Russian population is increased while Ukrainian population decreases and then I wonder how much of the Ukrainians who fled will have put down roots in different countries and will never return. They tend to be a lot of the old and young mothers with kids. The population of Ukraine might decrease by over a million and be years before makes up this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Nowhere does it state it was promised. It got 15% of what it asked for. Not 15% of what was promised . The tweet you’re referencing and the article says the same. No point making stuff up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    And what of those young Russians who have avoided conscription but who will look at what has gone down and just get out? A massive brain drain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    That looks pathetic, and much more of a bang of astroturf off it (or full on state organised?) than "grassroots"!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    You made up they were promised it, they weren’t, they requested that amount but they weren’t promised it. It’s the most basic thing. If you can’t grasp that good luck to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But you don't actually know that do you .

    No .

    I stand by my posts



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    You stand by making stuff up and being wrong. Ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Definitely. I just don't know would it still end up with Russia been up more in their population and Ukraine been down in their population come the end of the conflict if it end up Russia don't return the children and a lot of Ukrainians don't return to Ukraine. It's just **** all round. Hopefully ends soon which sadly I don't think it will and Ukraine get all their land back, but I don't know I just don't think it will end tht way, but I hope I am 100% wrong and it does end that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    No.

    I don't make things up and stand by my posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Going to post something that goes against much of what I have posted in the past in regards to Ukraine.

    I have always been supportive of Ukraine recieving as much weapons as possible to try and defend itself against the Russians, and I think that was the right thing to do, it helped them push the Russians back from large portions of their territory at the start and helped them to not being subjugated entirely by the Russians.

    However, now im of the opinion that little more can be gained now from Ukraine in regards to liberating land. Maybe they can make small gains, but talk of large swathes of land and even Crimea being liberated are quite honestly not even close to being a reality. The West and US are not going to provide enough for Ukraine to do this, and that seems quite apparent to me now.

    So unfortunately I don't see any other option for Ukraine now but to contemplate negotiations with Russia that may involve accepting loss of territory, and even other concessions.

    The most important thing for Ukraine now IMO is to get as much binding security guarantees from the west as possible to try and negate for when Russia trys to have another go again. They will also need to use the following years to bulk up their defenses further and hopefully be better prepared for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭jmreire


    A more pertinent question might well be who will pay the bill if Putin is not stopped, and it spreads further afield than Ukraine.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I'd say the vast majority of Ukrainians now living in western Europe and here will likely settle where they are now rather than Risk going back to start again and face further conflicts in the region,as it stands between free accommodations and health care and access to welfare why would anyone want to return to a country that's literally physically and financially broke, remember when the likes of the Baltics including Poland joined the EU it was predicted migrant workers would increase but they wouldn't settle down , only that's exactly what they did across the EU ,I'd say the majority will stay in there new countries rather than Risk going back to Ukraine and uncertainty about what happens next



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet there are people who still believe that there isn't an agreed position from the great Western powers to only allow enough for Ukraine to advance rather than win outright and not to have Russia beaten too bad.


    15% of what asked for by Ukraine, because that is what Ukraine needs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, and behind that statement, you have international banks and financial houses who are at a loss, and these house's exert a lot of control in world events, so Putin has broken a whole different set of rules and laws, when he crossed these people. And they neither forgive or forget. I would not be so quick to say that Putin or Russia will be able to just walk away from his thieving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Ive been saying this from the start,if they don't get everything they need and ask for they will hit a wall that they can't break through, they are struggling to get artillery shells,NATO stores are running low and there isn't a huge untapped store of ammunition anywhere in Europe, even the biggest producer of artillery Said that they will struggle to supply the 1 million shells promised,but random Joe's on boards read on twitter so they know better,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    If they do make a break through and if any one can it will be Ukraine, you'd expect that the flow of weapons to Ukraine will hit a wall.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I don't see a break through anytime soon,that could change,but if things don't improve with the counter offensive and weapons for Ukraine then the predictions of a possible 5 year war could come to fruition, which won't be good for anyone NATO and the EU don't have unlimited resources,a 5 year war could massively effect Europen economies much worse than we are currently seeing with the cost of living crisis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    New documentary is showing in US and Canadian theatres this month. 2023 and Putin's Russia is still at this genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    A long war will leave Ukraine a failed State, Russia as well.


    If the fight goes on longer than this year, there will be more leaving Ukraine and less will return. As is nearly a QTR of Ukraine had left, with that heavily leaning towards the young. If the Ukrainian refugees dont return, Ukraine has no long term future.


    Russia might descend back in to the savagery of a communist like State, ultra strict control and mass murder to enforce it and poverty for all.


    The leaders of Western Europe will pay a serious price if the Eastern edge of Europe becomes locked in to stalemate war between 2 countries that are economically and socially broken from the cost of the fight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The Russian government has seized Carlsberg's and Danone's assets in Russia.

    The eejits had their warning to pull out in solidarity with the other western companies when the war started. But "Oh No". They persisted. And now they will be forever known as Rashist quislings who still got their asses handed to them on their plates by remaining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    When you have a Govt whose every leader has been indoctrinated with "seize the means of production" you can't be surprised when they do.


    No sympathy for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,073 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The Ukrainians are continually taking territory, albeit it gradual progress. They aren't going to stop unless they grind to a complete halt. Also keep in mind they haven't committed the bulk of their reserves. The Russians now seem incapable of proper counter-offensive, they took 7 months to take Bahkmut, they are weaker now than they were then, considerable losses, plus munition supply issues (which they didn't admit to last year)

    They are having command issues, with Putin gutting "disloyal" commanders and SS strikes taking care of others.

    It's a tough slog for Ukraine, but behind the mines and dug-in defenses, there's a very low quality, low morale Russian military showing serious cracks. Ukraine has it's own issues, but F16 training just got the greenlight, and more equipment is constantly arriving. They are also adapting a lot with this counter-offensive, taking out a lot of the Russian artillery and having considerable success with FPV kamikaze drones, as well as putting immense pressure on large numbers of Russian reserves who have to keep rushing to different parts of the line.

    I certainly wouldn't write them off yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    Agreed, anyone who writes then off when they are at the start of a very difficult counteroffensive is overly negative. If anyone can do it the Ukranians can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Does Russia have unlimited resources?

    Do you think one of the most sanctioned countries on the planet will be able to out produce the west on arms?

    You mention NATO and the EU, but there's also Australia, NZ and indirectly South Korea, Japan & Taiwan.

    Why do you bring up a valid argument but fail to acknowledge that Russia doesn't also have unlimited resources.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    Russia has a lot of tanks, artillery and guns…mostly ww1/2 vintage, and even they are running out, they are a busted flush and the differences will become even more pronounced in the autumn.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,073 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Finally, we have it, Trumps plan to end the war in one day. Enjoy.




This discussion has been closed.
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