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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    It would seem to me that the war is being fought on Russian terms. The attrition that an attacking force will suffer is greater than the territorial gains that are being made.

    And yet the Chief Sergeant of the 3rd Assault Brigade (recently seen in a widely circulated video taking control of Russian positions) says that their attrition rate is way lower than expected. In this video, https://youtu.be/zfpPl9_tjes from about 4min, he debunks a claim made by some propagandist, pointing out that while he's not authorised to give actual numbers, he can say that they'd prepared for an attrition rate of 14% per day but so far counting KIA & MIA-presumed-dead together, they're running at just 2% per month.

    The mythical "3-to-1" ratio has long since been rendered useless as a reliable statistic for this war, and you can see why in just about all of the trench-clearing videos. Teams of 4-10 Ukrainians go in and remove 20 Russians from effective combat; and rarely does any less than the original number of Ukranians come back alive. "Markus" also points out that most their injured return to active service; the same is not true for the Russians.

    All-in-all, everything seems to suggest that the Ukranians are quite happy with slow but methodical progress and minimal casulaties, whatever the ADHD Western media might want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I've been wondering roughly what percentage of Russian artillery has been taken out so have tried to get a rough ball park figure.

    Using this as a starting point:

    According to the Military Balance — a database of global weapons compiled by the International Institute for Strategic Studies — Russia had more than 4,894 artillery pieces in 2022, nearly half of which were self-propelled.  

    (I'm assuming that that number includes MLRSs since no separate figure was given for those)


    The Oryx database gives a minimum eliminated figure, since that tracks all visible neutralisations. Their numbers are:

    • Towed Artillery - 250
    • Self-propelled Artillery - 441
    • MLRS - 230

    For a grand total of 921

    At the other end of the estimation spectrum we have the Ukrainian MoD's figures:

    • Artillery - 4,330
    • MLRS - 658

    For a grand total of 4,988


    That's quite the difference. Safe to say that the true number lies somewhere in between. The MoD's numbers seem overly optimistic purely because if true it would mean that the Russian's would have run out of artillery pieces. Clearly that hasn't happened and what's more there doesn't seem to be any rumblings that that's going to happen any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    Lol

    IMG_2950.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    Ruble Euro parity.

    IMG_2951.jpeg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The use of cluster bombs is a non-issue. Russia is already using them. It's Ukraine's territory, if they want to use them - and take the risk of civilian casualities after the war - that's their decision to make.

    They''ll do some damage but they won't be a game-changer. They're being given primarily because USA is short on conventional 155mm ammo.

    Whoever controls the territory after the war will have some job clearing the place. But that's already the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Unfortunately it won't work like that when in a few months or years when Nato will be getting blamed for civilian casualties caused by them especially on children, it's nato who gets the blame and Nato will likely have clean up the mess afterwards.

    It's not as simple as it's been made out of be



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Nothing shows the gap in age between the Millennials running Ukraine and the gerontocracy running Russia than their respective media campaigns.


    Russian MoD messaging always takes itself so seriously. There's never any fun or humour in it. It's all about conveying "Russia Strong". It's often just looped footage of Russian soldiers in suspiciously clean uniforms on maneuvers or even just this guy reeling off a bunch of made up figures each night


    image.png


    In contrast, Ukrainian MoD messaging:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Poland are clearly not using their Article 5 guarantee as an excuse to ease off on defence spending


    image.png




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭dePeatrick




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Maybe the good Lord Dannatt should figure a way of gaining air superiority so. Ukraine can't be fighting a very large Russian military force with it's hands tied by moral equivocating, particularly when the Russian are quite OK with using such munitions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 870 ✭✭✭blackwave


    So Turkey are returning the commanders of the defense of Mariupol to Ukraine which it includes Azoz commanders. They are also seem to be supporting ascension to NATO as well. This is a big slap in the face of Russia.

    Has erdogan decided that Putin is a busted flush and sees where the wind is blowing? So is trying to show his support now and get ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Poland knows it cannot totally rely on Article 5 to guarantee its safety from Russian attack. I get the unshakeable feeling that if a Russian attack were ever to happen on Poland (most likely not imminently because Russia are so militarily depleted just with Ukraine) that you'd have this whole tedious conversation of "...do we want to risk nuclear war over Poland?". If that conversation in any way did happen, it would be a complete green light for the USA's rivals to start moving on territory they wanted to control.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    They are drogue chutes to ensure that the shaped charges are pointing down. They don't retard their fall or allow them to drift.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Quite possibly, he's some wily operator. Keeping options open. Hardly a trustworthy ally though,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Erdogen has played both sides from the start, and by all accounts the Russians are not happy at all with this news. Supporting NATO membership is fairly significant. But Türkiye has its own problems and erdogen may have had quiet talks and had it pointed out that only one side of this war has the economic clout to do well by Türkiye. Russia can't even wield Bigger Army Diplomacy anymore: this war has been a huge geopolitical own goal for them, and then some.

    As to the prisoner trade, I had wondered if any of those commanders were Azov. That's a shame; as sad as it was to see Mariupol fall, it also meant the tedious refrain about Nazis in Ukraine disappeared from the Pavlovian contrarians' playbook. The return of these commanders will no doubt allow those bad faith actors to trot out that canard once more. I wonder if Zelensky might quickly and quietly shove them somewhere as far away from the public eye as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Maybe so but during the NATO bombing of Serbia over Kosovo, NIS Airport was targeted and several drifted over and fell in the City itself, 3 klms away. 2nd bombing was more than 7 KLms away from the airport, also in the City 14 deaths, 28 injured plus one more death in 2000 from an unexploded Cluster bomb. After the war stopped, hundreds of unexploded Cluster bombs were found in the Serbian countryside. I've seen a few of them ( at least their parachutes } but always kept far away from them, much more so than unexploded shells or rockets half buried in the ground. I was specifically warned about their unpredictability, and how lethal they were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @pixelburp As to the prisoner trade, I had wondered if any of those commanders were Azov. That's a shame; as sad as it was to see Mariupol fall, it also meant the tedious refrain about Nazis in Ukraine disappeared from the Pavlovian contrarians' playbook. The return of these commanders will no doubt allow those bad faith actors to trot out that canard once more. I wonder if Zelensky might quickly and quietly shove them somewhere as far away from the public eye as possible.


    I'm not so sure that those involved in the defense of Mariupol were anything to do with Nazi's or the far right,the Azoz battlion of 2014s defense of Mariupol were a different kettle of fish, post 2014 the Nazi's were drilled out and the Azoz battlion became a full time unit of the new Ukrainian military,the defense of azoztal steel works were a mix of Ukrainan army , Ukrainian Marines and a few other units ,part of the agreement to release the commanders involved them being shipped to turkey for a period of time, wether them being returned from turkey today or this weekend is part of the deal with Russia is a different story, which could effect the hundreds of others still in detention in Russian occupied territory



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The way to look at that is, considering the fact that in any war zone anywhere in the world, the land is so badly contaminated with all manner of unexploded ordinance, singling out cluster bombs for special attention is a bit superfluous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Poland should just choose “ peace” and “give up thy foolish ways”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    There are several assumptions to that idea Danzy... the main one being that the soldier behind the 6 foot of concrete is in good shape and fighting fit, well supplied with arms, food clothing etc. Another one is the 6 ft concrete walls..you would not want to equate 6ft of Russian standard ( especially Military standard) with its European equivalent, and definitely not after its been through a winter in that part of the world....while they will remain an obstacle, they are not as formidable as they may seem at first sight. The mines of course will always be a problem. But fighting as Ukraine is fighting now destroying the Russian soldiers fitness to fight, is a very good plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I'd say that its a case of sufficient to the day the evil thereof....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Nazis in Ukraine should never have been a talking point for Russia, anyway. Not only would such people pose no threat whatsoever to Russian territory, but Russia had a powerful mercenary group called Wagner that was operating at Putin's pleasure. Basic concept, here, but if a country cannot or will not deal with its own Nazis, what cause has it got to be complaining about anyone else's?

    However, the Nazi thing was only ever really for domestic consumption, anyway. For the generation who remember the Great Patriotic War and have a general fetish for the hardship endured during it. Everyone else can see it as even more of a sham argument than WMDs in 2003.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett



    You've got it wrong.

    Valery Markus isn't with the 3rd assault brigade, he's with the 47th assault brigade

    The 47th was one of the brigades trained by NATO and equipped with NATO weapons.

    Untitled Image

    Markus's 47th are the ones who have been trying to assault Robotyne for the last month. His task has not been made easy at all. The Russians have anticipated this was a primary axis of attack and have deployed the 45th Spetsnaz (special forces) here, and there are other capable formations here too.

    Markus gives a 2% dead/missing, but neglects to give the wounded number. Assuming a 3:1 ratio of wounded to dead, the total loss is 8%. As of now, the 47th have gained no strategic objectives, and in about two-three months will be rendered combat ineffective if the current rate of attrition persists. The video is likely out of date, and he is sugar coating things, so the reality will be towards the lower end of estimates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Could you point out where the shells will come from?

    Germany, Britain, France, et al still seem to be trying to get the paperwork through to get production ramped up. None of whom have capacity to give anything anytime soon.

    The US has released cluster munitions, only because Biden has acknowledged that stocks are running low on their side. South Korean shells are back-filling the stocks that the US are releasing to Ukraine. Even the US are under strain with regard to supply

    In the meantime, I will make a gruesome, but likely very correct prediction. Whatever number of Russian shell production that people have in mind (I hear capacity of 1M shells a year), I bet they will beat it.

    I said at the end of 2022, everyone was sitting their laurels, patting themselves on the back for the imminent collapse of the Russian army.

    Here we are in 2023, everyone is doing the exact same thing, patting themselves on the back for the imminent collapse of the Russian army.

    No one seems to give a sh1t that the pledged deliveries (tanks and shells) have been completely missed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The OP already stated the shells supplied will be cluster shells. The snails pace with the EU shell production is annoying, but if it gets on a war footing then I can't see Russia competing. The EU have already provided 220k shells over the past 2 months.

    So if it's not 1 million shells a year Russia can produce, what is it? Making a prediction that will be higher or lower than a quoted figure is just tossing a coin. 1 million is less than 3k a day and if Russia are expected to keep the land they have taken, 3k shells a day is not nearly enough.

    It's very easy to look at one side. Ukraine don't have X or are running out of Y, so they will fail, but completely ignore the other side, Russia, that are in a similar situation. Why do people assume Russia has unlimited supplies of everything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Indeed. Despite potential logistics in getting supplies to Ukraine, they are being afforded the resources of the entire NATO alliance, none of which is under sanction and many of whom have strictly adhered quality standards for their equipment.

    Contrast this to Russia, who must lean upon an ultimately finite supply of weapons they inherited from the Soviet Union, which is increasingly looking like a very different beast to the modern Russian Federation. The supply chains the Soviets built are either long gone, decayed or ironically located in places like Ukraine. The Russians must rely upon the munitions the Soviets made back in the day, of which there are many, but unfortunately for them many of these stockpiles were poorly maintained, meaning that much of it might be little more than very dangerous rust piles.

    Their hope for new supplies come from Iran, a country that can’t hope to meet the rate or quality of munitions supplied by NATO, and can be very easily cut off if Isreal get cheeky again and strike their factories. Then there’s North Korea, actual experts at maintaining Soviet kit, who may not be willing to give up their supplies in case of fighting with South Korea. Finally there’s China, who are not above quietly selling shells to Russia for the right price. Problem is that the supply lines would take ages to restock via China and Chinese munitions would be piss-poor clones of Soviet weapons.

    If the Soviet Union of the 70s was suddenly time-traveled into the place of the current Russia, then maybe they’d have a shot. But today’s Russia, now removed from some of the more industrial elements of the Soviet empire, and without a Warsaw Pact to back them up, is now a decaying shadow of itself thar had little more than gas money to keep it going. Their defeat on the battlefield is a matter of time, but their defeat as a nation happened long ago.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭amacca


    That's exactly what's happening....expect to see more rats and fence sitting rats pick a team now.



This discussion has been closed.
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