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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Hostomel airport was a primary target for the Russians who planned to fly troops and heavy equipment in there, just 20km north of the city centre. Hostomel was home to the world's largest transport plane so its runway was certainly capable of handling large aircraft. If the Russians had held the airport (and cleared its perimeter of Ukrainian forces) the traffic jam of tanks on the roads north of Kyiv would not have prevented the Russians bringing in the troops and equipment to take Kyiv or, at the very least, to clear Ukrainian forces from the roads north of Kyiv and thereby freeing up the northern route for the tanks.

    So the Ukrainians snatched victory from the jaws of defeat but my point remains: the utter confusion in the West about developments in Russia indicates that the US do not have a top-level source in the Russian MoD or within Putin's inner circle. Obviously, western media were even more in the dark.

    Putin sees Western conspiracies everywhere, even in Prigozhin's astonishing mutiny, but the reality is the Western powers were baffled bystanders last weekend. Putin's paranoia will reach new levels now that he knows the real threat comes from his own inner circle.

    If China and the Central Asians begin to pull back from Putin, that might be the signal for a palace coup. The Kremlin sent a Deputy FM hotfoot off to Beijing and he claimed to have got China's backing (the media largely swallowed that line) but the Chinese response was very cool, just saying it was "an internal matter" for Russia. This whole episode has humiliated Putin in the eyes of Xi Jinping who would never tolerate a bunch of mercenaries like Wagner. Watch the Central Asians who were already getting uppity with Putin and moving closer to China. That may be the next shoe to drop.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭Baba Yaga


    dont know what the outcome will be but its certainly very confusing!!

    yo! donnie vonredactedpants,vlad putin,benji netanyahu,vic orban..you sirs are the skidmarks on the jocks of humanity!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I would imagine multiple meals are prepared for Putin, all of which are tested and one of which is chosen randomly to mitigate that risk. Also, I would strongly suspect that every person who works as part of Putin's entourage is told in no uncertain terms what fate awaits them, and their family, and their extended family and friends should they betray him in any way.

    I would wager, on a domestic level (and due to his high level of paranoia), and the number of people he's had killed, he is probably one of the most guarded people in the planet. Apparently, according to insiders, this accelerated in 2020 due to the pandemic (hence the long table). Reportedly he now only receives "certain" news from select inner sources, and doesn't access outside or internet information any more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    No way the other large military powers in the world would have given them so much time to prepare defences. No wonder Ukraine have been continually looking to upgrade their Air Force and abilities to both attack beyond these lines and bypass them. Russia knows this and threatens whatever when it’s suggested but looks like that is what will be needed to get the f***ers out.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think you're massively overestimating the amount of forces that Russia could have realistically brought to bear via an isolated airport, particularly when they have never managed to achieve air superiority. They would not have been able to take Kyiv from there. Its was a terrible offensive that relied on Ukrainian collapse and was never going to get through a determined defence.

    About the only "there but for the grace of God" type event was Zelensky staying in the capital as him leaving might have caused a collapse in the defence (though I think that's far from sure).

    The US intelligence practically counted down to the Russian invasion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    D08C82C8-B109-4804-A71E-9A76AC73C04B.jpeg

    Rumours that putin is set to announce that he and lukashenkl have been been and currently are in fact a couple. They want to make it official with a kiss that will be broadcast live from the kremlin.


    This explains a lot…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,661 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Think I have read that the Soviets had an army of functionaries (a branch of KGB) for looking after needs of the Party Secretary and big cheeses (possibly down to having "grooms of the stool" to wipe backsides...only half joking) so I suppose Putin recreated (or retained/expanded?) this bubble of security, luxury + privilege for himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Imagine living your life with the fear of an assassination plot lurking around every corner. Putin must have a constant hum of anxiety in his stomach that's been there for so long that he longer notices it. His whole life as Russian leader has been defined by abject paranoia and shapes every decision he makes. You could say that this mindset has been a part of Russian political life for a long time, but in Putin it is truly personified. If he wasn't such a horrible little murdering bástard, you'd almost feel sorry for him that he's probably never felt truly safe in his whole adult life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭josip




  • Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭ Esther Calm Valedictorian


    All the riches in the world would not be worth it. I often think the same about criminals such as the Kinahans.

    No thanks, give me 9-5, attainment of comfortable wealth over time and a few pints the weekend any day over that level of paranoia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,530 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    He (Blinken) would deny having advance knowledge even if they had, as it implies they had a hand in it. With this in mind Putin will be keen to put it out that the West was behind it to get the Russian public behind him. As for the Battle of Kyiv,no doubt the Ukranians fought fiercely but they were aided by the west in terms of Intelligence and weaponry to achieve it. The Spetnatz had their reputation destroyed in that battle. You never hear of the SAS being decimated in a battle. I still think there was a deal with Prigozhin, why else have the charges been dropped against Prigozhin and an amnesty given to Wagner fighters who sign contracts with the Russian MOD. That sounds very much like a deal to me. I agree Putin has to renege on the deal or else others will be emboldened to try and unseat Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,530 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    To me it could suggest two things: the west don't have a top level spy in Wagner. Neither does the Russian MOD. If the west do have a top level spy in the Russian MOD,they would prefer the public perception to be they are clueless in this instance, because they will want to protect the source. Secondly to admit they knew about what was going on would be a propaganda coup for Putin. Putin is desperate to blame the west for this to get the Russian public behind him. You could well be right that there is no high ranking spy, but it would not be a shock if there was- afterall look what went on in that world during the Cold War.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I hope that all this silliness with Prigozhin isn't distracting from what's really important here. The Ukraine counter-offensive needs more help.

    Screenshot 2023-06-27 134505.png

    Things were never going to be easy but it's clear more needs to be done to crack the Russian lines of defence. People mocked the slow pace of the Wagner offensive at Bakhmut, but in reality Ukraine's is going at about the same speed. We've seen fighting for three and a half weeks with Ukraine advancing about 1km a week. You can't extrapolate that progress (cities may take long to take, resistance may weaken after Ukraine breach the first few lines), but at the current rate, Ukraine will be at Melitopol for Christmas 2024.

    Surely it's time for NATO to look at providing something to break the deadlock here. Trading limbs and Bradley's for mines isn't going to cut it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,837 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    During WW2 the British deliberately witheld intelligence about upcoming attacks from some of their own ships in order to cover the fact they'd cracked Enigma. I can't imagine any intelligence agency (western or otherwise) would be stupid enough to reveal a high ranking spy in the Kremlin for no other purpose than to keep the public informed. If Biden and his Chiefs of Staff knew what was going on because of a human asset, they were never going to discuss it outside of the the Situation Room. Same for any other government...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭riddles


    The Russians have a challenge to retreat and the Ukrainians don’t exactly want to sacrifice any body so without air support movement forward movement is going to be hard won. After D day the feeling was the war was won and people didn’t want to take a bullet it reduced forward momentum making it more difficult to move forward that otherwise may have been the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,181 ✭✭✭Field east


    Would it not be the case that the ‘slow start ‘ is explained as follows :-

    (1) go slow at the beginning to find out what’s ahead rather than going head first/ headlong into the offensive

    (2) maybe it’s strategic - to go in ‘ first gear ‘ at the beginning and suddenly to go inti ‘third/ fourth gear and catch the Russians flatfooted

    (3) the pace is bound to be slow at the beginning because that’s where the most difficult ‘stumbling blocks’ are re decagons teeth, trenches, mines, etc, but once these have been ‘ neutralised the pace of advance should significantly increase.

    In summary, I expect the UKr army has all this worked out re applying different arnaments , attack strategies at the appropriate times



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Nine to Five. Workin' for The Man. The daily grind.


    etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's not an action movie, the lines aren't going to suddenly break en masse, it's massive defense in depth. The minefields are a huge problem. The more kit they have the better, but in a best case scenario it's still going to take Ukraine a long time. Could go on for years. Or the Russian military could start to collapse from the pressure, we've already seen plenty of cracks.

    Also keep in mind Ukraine has liberated over 250 square km in several weeks with bad weather and not committing the bulk of it's offensive forces, far more than Russia took in 6 months.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    It's often been said he manifests the dark triad. Narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. I doubt he suffers much anxiety at all compared to normal people. Russia seems to let people like him rise to the top much like corporate CEOs.

    Also worth noting is people who have been identified as internet trolls show similar traits. It would explain the mutual attraction.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/ie/blog/out-the-darkness/202203/the-danger-dark-triad-leaders

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20563051211021382



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Firstly, NATO is looking at more effective weapons to help Ukraine speed up the process of retaking the country. Not as fast as most would like, but training on the F-16s looks to be happening.

    Secondly, it appears that NATO strategy is not to chase Russia out of Ukraine in a quick manner but to wear Russia down until the Putin regime falls and Russia withdraws or comes to the table with a much more modest set of proposals. Is this a cynical way to go about things when people are getting blown up by mines and dying in all sorts of other horrible ways? One could make that argument, but we're dealing with a large power in Russia under Putin who is incredibly spiteful and ruthless. I think they would blow that power plant if they found themselves on the end of an imminent rout along the southern front, for example. They may not go with nuclear weapons, but will happily commit every massacre and create every ecological disaster they can if they think they're about to lose the small hold they do have on the territory of Ukraine.

    Thirdly, I think we should take a moment to appreciate that the West has given Ukraine a massive amount of military aid so far, such that it's pretty much the main reason (apart from the Ukrainian soldiers' tenacity) why Zelenskyy isn't currently sitting in a Russian jail cell (optimistic, here, to think they wouldn't kill him without trial) and a puppet government hasn't been running the country for the last year.



  • Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just worry that Russia have had too long to dig in. Everybody has been focused on big (or interesting) events like Bakhmut, the dam, now this Prigozhin thing, meanwhile the Russians have been creating the most extensive defensive works in Europe since WWII.

    The trenches etc can be seen on satellite. Minefields can't, but you have to assume they have mined the place just as extensively. That's certainly what it seems from videos these last few weeks.

    It's frustrating that this was allowed to happen. I know Ukraine had to be trained and armed etc but it all happened way too slowly.

    German commanders said that a Red Army bridgehead had to be counterattacked and destroyed quickly because once the Soviets were dug in, they would be a nightmare to dig out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    True, but to be fair you could also phrase it in this way: the amount of territory the Russians captured in their Winter offensive was miniscule in relation to their ambition. The amount of territory which Ukraine has captured in its Summer offensive is similarly miniscule, although less so.

    Ukraine need something to breach Russian lines and really put them in disarray.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Does anyone know if the rail line through Tokmak is still operating freely? Given the importance of rail lines to Russian logistics, I assume that it is worthy of repeated HIMARs strikes on bridges, if not the general track?

    How far behind the front lines would the M777s and other artillery be placed? Robotyne, recently retaken, is 25km for that rail line. Orikhiv is 15km further back and the rail line would be within range of a Caesar operating from there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Hoping Ukraine can do the same kind of thing along this southern front. It begs the question what kind of fortifications the Russians had in place to slow Ukraine's advance in that region. Was it of a similar level to what Ukraine is facing now? If so, what tactics did Ukraine employ to overcome them and could they be used in their current offensive?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I've read it. I'm not sure how you think it supports your point.

    A) The US knew of and warned Ukraine of the upcoming invasion but Ukraine did not believe them. There is nothing the US can do about that.

    B) It says nothing about if the Russians had held Hostomel the city would have fallen. Its a fanciful idea. A single runway simply is not that important. Russia could not have brought in enough troops to storm the city from there under the circumstances.

    Russians took the airport because Ukraine did not trust US intel and didn't expect the attack. They had, however, made preparations all the same so that the attack on hostomel was not as big a blow as it might have been. The lines of tanks happened because the Russian advance was terribly planned and relied on limited resistance. The recapturing of Hostomel was not the cause of that - you don't invade or circle a city from one airstrip. As for the attack on the presidential palace, the info is sparse but it seems a fairly cock-a-hoop attempt that was never likely to succeed.

    Since we are discussing WaPo articles however, here is another one explaining that the US did in fact know everything that was about to happen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Timeline: 06-July 1944

    Report: the amount of territory the allies have captured since their amphibious landings on the Normandy coast is miniscule. The German forces have foiled multiple British and Canadian assaults on Caen. The American forces are stuck in the bocage and are taking large casualties. There seems little possibility of a breakout and supply lines are strained.

    (6 weeks later they were in Paris. 2 weeks after that they were in Brussels and the end of the war was in sight)

    First slow, then quick. 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,530 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I think within the next few weeks we will see a rapid advance like we saw in Kherson a while back. The Ukranians are probing for weakness and have kept troops in reserve for when a significant breach is made. Already we have seen a Donbas village that was in Russian hands since 2014 being retaken according to the British MOD. Even if i am wrong about a rapid advance, Ukraine are going to win this war in time simply because if Russia achieves any kind of victory it will upset the international order and give a green light to others who want to invade their neighbours. A Russian victory would likely see the Dollar plummet in value due to America's authority being weakened. The fact Putin did not realise all this shows his hubris overrode his ability to think clearly. Sergei ,his security chief, likely knew it, but as we see in that video I posted earlier he was afraid to tell his boss what he really thought. Which just about sums Putin's regime up and why he is on the road to ruin or maybe the Hague eventually!

    If the west had gone all in Ukraine could have achieved this victory sooner and lost less men, but in the main the west have always been reactive rather than pro active.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Yes it is.

    Perun talks about this exact thing in his latest video. I have it lined up to begin at the relevant section below




This discussion has been closed.
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