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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    They had spare controllers on board. They also have spare oxygen bottles under the floor boards. While it's not a confidence inspiring outfit running the show, the submersible isn't the home built tin can some are making it out to be. There's a video of the pressure chamber being manufactured and it looked like the kind of legitimate facility that builds rockets. Accusations abound that the viewing porthole wasn't certified for the depths that they were operating to and if that's true there is absolutely no excuse for it.

    I also found this interesting from the OceanGate website:

    "The most significant innovation is the proprietary real-time hull health monitoring (RTM) system. Titan is the only manned submersible to employ an integrated real-time health monitoring system. Utilizing co-located acoustic sensors and strain gauges throughout the pressure boundary, the RTM system makes it possible to analyze the effects of changing pressure on the vessel as the submersible dives deeper, and accurately assess the integrity of the structure. This onboard health analysis monitoring system provides early warning detection for the pilot with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface."

    If this is true, then there would have been warnings on board that there was an issue with the hull and they presumably could have communicated this or aborted the dive. If the porthole failed then it's unlikely they would have known anything about it.

    https://oceangate.com/our-subs/titan-submersible.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,305 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    They are hearing noises on the regular now, Jesus this is horrible.

    It would be a modern marvel if they are found alive.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To put a perspective on my contributions here: my splendid instructor Fiona, to the right impatiently waiting for my Dad to hurry up taking pics, my cousin Celine to left, an enthusiastic passenger, and myself posing for a rare photo- hated having photos taken in my 20s.

    This was the very early 1980s when a full third of hobby aviators were female, one of the two full time employed instructors at Weston was female, and presently the long-standing most experienced chief Gliding Instructor Prof Cecily Begley is female. The female presence was very well acknowledged in aviation, engineering, tech way back in the day, but I feel a certain generation is falling short of recognising the importance of all contributions to the engineering world forming part of a sensible and realistic model for somewhat safer progress.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This was in lieu of scans, and allegedly inferior. Although Forth Bridges do acoustic monitoring for obvious reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    In lieu of scans at time of manufacture or on an ongoing basis? Would it be feasible to scan a sub in it's entirety on a regular basis? Real time monitoring is at least a step above hoping for the best.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    The Atalante has arrived in the vicinity of the Titanic wreck site. This is the French vessel with a robotic submersible that is capable of going to 6000m. They have a team of 25 operators so they can work for 72hrs straight. Presumably they will get the sub in the water immediately and dive to the wreck site and start the search from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭65535


    As mariners they will know to signal with noise on the hour for 3 minutes, and at 30 past the hour for 3 minutes (every 30 minutes) as they are the radio distress periods when all ships have to maintain a listening watch and not normally transmit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_silence



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,226 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yes. That's literally what the post I quoted said.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    I don't believe they'll deploy the sub until they have a far better idea of where they are searching. The search area is massive - its the equivalent of being told you have to search Leinster and Connaught for a black Ford Transit, from a plane at 4000m, at night, and your lights won't reach more than tens of metres so you have to do this by sonar and acoustic sensors. They are only about halfway through their search area at the moment.

    Robert Ballard, who discovered the Titanic, wrote a book about the discovery and it contains a good description of difficulties faced in trying to search the sea bed in the area. His crew had to deal with a far larger search area (on the basis that no-one really knew where the Titanic had sunk) but had a larger target and weren't under the pressures of trying to effect a rescue in very little time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Strong and Faithful


    Not more news on the search, just scanning the web here. The noises may not be human seems to be the latest.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Strong and Faithful


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They will deploy the sub immediately. There are already ROVs in the search effort, some 3000m-capable ones from a pipe-laying ship.

    Originally they were searching near the titanic - which is the most logical place to begin a search. The Canadians pulled the search effort away to another area when they heard banging. When more ships and ROVs turn up on the scene they will split the effort and some will go back to search near the titanic wreckage. I think it will be found there eventually, not necessarily in the near future though.

    The most likely thing is that imploded as it got close to 3800m. It will have been fairly close to the titanic at that stage - assuming the support ship had been guiding it properly. The debris will have fallen to the sea bed, they won't have drifted too far assuming it was already near the sea-bed.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm just reading this on the Guardian:

    "Three different aircraft heard them in their sensors at the same time and it went on for two days-plus.

    It’s still going on apparently. There’s not a lot in the natural world we can think of that would do that every 30-minute cycle."



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    The media are some fcuking gowls - trying to drum up clicks by constantly updating on the 'rescue' effort.

    Even if the sub was located dozens of hours ago, the sheer logistics of trying to raise it to the surface in time would mean everyone on board would be dead before it got near the surface.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Yes, there is absolutely zero chance of anyone surviving this now.

    My own belief is that they all died on Sunday, either by catastrophic implosion, or by a loss of life support systems/power which would have killed them by suffocation. The quoted 96 hours of breathable air only works when all life support systems are operational, namely the CO2 scrubbers, so they can have all the oxygen in the world, but if they can't scrub the CO2 from the capsule, all that oxygen means nothing...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Rte saying the victor 6000 can lift the sub

    I doubt that somehow



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Strong and Faithful


    Right. I read off the RTE website. 'Former US Navy submarine commander David Marque, said the noises may not be coming from the submersible.

    "I don't think the noise is them, it could just be natural sounds," he said.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Not a chance. At least not under its own steam. It isn't designed or has the power for that. Perhaps its manipulator arm can be used to attach a recovery line or diesel-filled flotation bags like they used to recover a 21 tonne piece of the Titanic some years back.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    For those talking about the sanctity of diving and exploring wrecks and mass graves like the Titanic, we don't have to go across the Atlantic to experience this activity first hand. Diving Ireland, the national governing body for recreational diving will give you a guide to wreck diving on the Irish coast.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I wonder, if with 100 years and better tech, that the remains of this sub could end up as part of a titanic wreckage tour. Weird to think about.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Ironically if the sub suffured a catastrophic implosion last Sunday, then this fact is suspected as being known by the US and Canadian military who operate an extensive network of seabed "microphones" in the Atlantic to track underwater activity by foreign nations (i.e. Russia). They can't say anything however becasue they can't reveal just how powerful the system is and how much they can listen in on. But on Sunday a few commentators who know about these systems confirmed this rather awkward fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,921 ✭✭✭kirving


    Titan is the only manned submersible to employ an integrated real-time health monitoring system.

    There's a very good reason for that. Stresses in the hull will increase with water pressure. At extreme depths, any failure whatsoever is immediate and catastrophic, and is unlikely to be forewarned by any strain gauge.

    As far as we know, it wasn't a hull failure, and any all data you can get from your machine helps inform your opinion for the future, but it comes across as a shortcut rather that extremely expensive Non-Destructive Testing like x-ray, electromagnetic, or ultrasonic tests.

    There should be absolutely no need to be monitoring the health of the hull, it should be designed out from the beginning.



    What stands out to me most of all, are the exposed motors and cabling of the thrusters. They could easily be caught in wreckage and damaged.

    Compare that to others, which seem far more protected IMO.




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    But on Sunday a few commentators who know about these systems confirmed this rather awkward fact.

    Confirmed that if it had happened, they (U.S./Canadians) would know?

    or confirmed that it did actually implode, but they just can't officially announce they know about it?


    If its the 1st option, it effectively means the entire operation out there now is more for show, and potential recovery of wreckage..



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    What stands out to me most of all, are the exposed motors and cabling of the thrusters. They could easily be caught in wreckage and damaged.

    And the fact that the sub effectively free falls down to the seabed uncontrolled means the potential for it to land awkwardly or snag on something when it lands must be very high... the Titanic debris field is huge with boilers and engines the size of houses just strewn over a very large area.... (the debris field is about 6km x 9km)




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Military secret, so cannot be confirmed, but strongly suggested that if sub had imploded it would be know to the US and Canadian military "top brass". The whole circus would therefore be in vain and the chance of recovery of wreckage even less likely than finding the sub is now (which is incredibly difficult).



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Tow


    That has crossed my mind, there are supposed to be sub listening devices, which would have picked up an implosion.

    It is interesting that the US Navy is keeping their mouth shut.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Strong and Faithful


    I find the whole concept of iron eating bacteria 'cleaning up' the titanic amazing. Just how nature will deal with with such, apparently, powerful elements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Strong and Faithful


    'A wise man once said, Look at the ocean and realize that no matter how famous you are or how much money you make know that you'll never be as important as the ocean.'

    Janet Jackson - Poetic Justice, 1993



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    The existence of large sonar / hydrophone arrays for detecting the movement of Russian submarines has been widely known for decades. One of the main systems (SOSUS) was declassified in the 1990s. It widely assumed that there are also arrays located off the South West coast of Ireland, in international waters.

    In fact, in a story related to the current one, the deepest ever submersible recovery took place in 1973 about 150 miles off Cork when a two-person sub was damaged by its recovery rope and sank to the sea bed. At the time, it was said that the sub was working on a transatlantic phone cable but it was widely believed that the cable in question was connecting the listening arrays back to England. There certainly was a significant military involvement in the operation - as a young lad I recall a Hercules transporter landing at Cork airport with a rescue submersible on board. There was also a Royal Navy survey ship on scene, and involvement from the US Navy and the Canadian Coast Guard.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    They seem to be editing the headline to say it's possible to hook it to a ship

    Making it up as they go along



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