Hopefully a good outcome ahead.
Sub named Titan.
This was in lieu of scans, and allegedly inferior. Although Forth Bridges do acoustic monitoring for obvious reasons.
To put a perspective on my contributions here: my splendid instructor Fiona, to the right impatiently waiting for my Dad to hurry up taking pics, my cousin Celine to left, an enthusiastic passenger, and myself posing for a rare photo- hated having photos taken in my 20s.
This was the very early 1980s when a full third of hobby aviators were female, one of the two full time employed instructors at Weston was female, and presently the long-standing most experienced chief Gliding Instructor Prof Cecily Begley is female. The female presence was very well acknowledged in aviation, engineering, tech way back in the day, but I feel a certain generation is falling short of recognising the importance of all contributions to the engineering world forming part of a sensible and realistic model for somewhat safer progress.
They are hearing noises on the regular now, Jesus this is horrible.
It would be a modern marvel if they are found alive.
They had spare controllers on board. They also have spare oxygen bottles under the floor boards. While it's not a confidence inspiring outfit running the show, the submersible isn't the home built tin can some are making it out to be. There's a video of the pressure chamber being manufactured and it looked like the kind of legitimate facility that builds rockets. Accusations abound that the viewing porthole wasn't certified for the depths that they were operating to and if that's true there is absolutely no excuse for it.
I also found this interesting from the OceanGate website:
"The most significant innovation is the proprietary real-time hull health monitoring (RTM) system. Titan is the only manned submersible to employ an integrated real-time health monitoring system. Utilizing co-located acoustic sensors and strain gauges throughout the pressure boundary, the RTM system makes it possible to analyze the effects of changing pressure on the vessel as the submersible dives deeper, and accurately assess the integrity of the structure. This onboard health analysis monitoring system provides early warning detection for the pilot with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface."
If this is true, then there would have been warnings on board that there was an issue with the hull and they presumably could have communicated this or aborted the dive. If the porthole failed then it's unlikely they would have known anything about it.
https://oceangate.com/our-subs/titan-submersible.html
Like something a few silly boyos with notions in togspace might set up with a 3D printer 🤷♀️
Saw the clip of the CBS reporter boarding the sub last year. It looks horrible inside, no room to stand up, DIY looking connections on the pipework, the camping light and the now famous controller. Most would run a mile seeing that interior. Very claustrophobic in there, not a good place to be
Well, you thanked somebody who ridiculed my expression of desired safety protocols, when you maybe know me personally in real life 😉as a trained aircraft pilot with a basic mariner cert too. I have found one very silly lad I’ve taken as passenger hyper nervous in my time (“girl flying the aircraft syndrome”). Rush to bathroom after landing.
Communities are flying aircrafts from the 1930s? Hard to imagine.
Nothing wrong if it's a relative but grave hunting is a bit sad.
Unless you're Joe Duffy, loves Glasnevin cemetery and others.
I mean if someone say to you what did you do on your day off and you say " I was to a few cemetery." just weird.
If the saety features on the sub are so basic, I would assume security and safety protocols are also lacklustre. There are routine and generally boring tasks that have to happen on all manner of complex systems. Anyone with a car, before heading out on a long journey will do the usuals, check tyre pressure, top up coolant etc.
Eddie Van Halen would send a checklist of things he wanted done at a venue ahead of a gig. And near the bottom of the checklist was leave a brandy glass filled with M&Ms on the stage. People think it was one of eccentricities but the reality was he could look at the stage and know they had read the checklist and be confident they have done everything on it. No brandy glass? Then instead of going to the hotel, he and his band and crew need to prepare the stuff straight away.
You would wonder, did OceanGate have a checklist? The pre-flight checks if you will. They talk about it having 96 hours of air in reserve. Were the air reserves checked beforehand? Crucially, were the batteries in the game controller checked? Are they floating somewhere between the surface and the bottom simply because the controller has run out of battery power?
I am confident they will find it. Whether they find it in time, who knows.
Contrary to some earlier posts, the ROV on the Atalante can go as deep as 6000m, so the Titanic is well within its range.
https://www.barrons.com/news/victor-6000-underwater-robot-4a87efee
Although Canada is a first world country it carries the legacy of communities who have lived in extremely tough conditions. Many of these communities are served by an airline with legacy aircraft dating from 1930s onwards which, though not in ordinary circumstances economical to run, are ruggedly enough engineered to cope with very rough & primitive conditions, albeit with modern satnav etc to enhance safety. Even after a crash, these aircraft often can be repaired and sometimes leave the occupants I injured.
The titanic carried civilians.
The whole point of cemeteries, civilian and military, is that the people interred in them have had a ceremonial burial, presided over by loved ones or comrades.
They have been treated with reverence and military cemeteries in particular are kept beautifully and solemnly by trusts and charities who will see they are tended as long as men draw breath.
The shipwreck war grave is the nearest way that the same reverence can be shown to the remains of victims that will never be recovered for a proper burial.
There are something like 20,000 naval wrecks from the past few centuries known in the World's oceans and all the major powers have legislation covering the protection of their own ocean war graves and also mutual recognition of foreign vessels in their waters and internationally that were sunk in action.
With specific reference to the Bismarck, this is the stated position of the German federal government in the early 1990s, following her discovery in the eastern Atlantic by Robert Ballard:
"The Federal Republic of Germany considers itself the owner of the former sovereign Battleship Bismarck. Diving excursions to the interior of the wreck as well as recovery attempts require consent of the Federal Government. This has been categorically denied in other cases of sunken ships of the World Wars, because one must expect to find remains of the dead in the wreck. The Federal Republic feels it is its duty to protect the seamen who went to their death in the sinking of the ship. Following international customs, we view the wreck of the Bismarck as a seamen's burial site that must be accorded proper respect."
The MS Estonia in the Baltic Sea (in international waters) is strictly off limits… some folk recently visited it illegally and apparently discovered some damage which completely contradicts the official story…. I think the theory is it was hit by another ship (possibly military) or submarine…
So the fact the site is off limits has only fuelled the conspiracy theories …
I noticed that the ‘passengers’ were actually given the designation ‘mission specialist’, as the guy Hamish tweeted it was an honour to be selected as a ‘mission specialist’ for the dive… even though he and the others had to pay a pretty penny for the privilege…..
So I wonder if there was a reason why they weren’t simply ‘fare paying passengers’ but rather ‘mission specialists’? Perhaps some way to absolve any liability because they were all calling themselves explorers or the like…
Yeah, they are not off limits for the most part AFAIK.
By that logic all cemeteries should be closed to the public, military and civilian. I don't understand the desire to see a shipwreck on the ocean floor, especially sitting on the floor of a sardine tin that was cobbled together, but I don't see how it is disrespectful.
Cemeteries are often excavated, all the old bones buried in a mass grave and plots reused. In the UK you can lease the exclusive use a grave for a set number of years, once the lease is up a stranger might be buried beside the original occupant and the headstone removed.
Once all living relatives pass away themselves no one cares about a grave, that's the harsh reality.
Dont think military ships are off limits Bismark etc
If tragedy does unfold and lives are lost... there may be repercusions due to the status of the passengers eg CEOs. Company finances could be at stake. Im not sure how insurance companies will view the reckless expedition.
I still can't get my head around the amateurish and apparent naive nature of this expedition considering the so called status of the people that are in the submersible. I know it's a cliche, but it was definitely a disaster waiting to happen.
I don't think they would.
They had to sign a 'death' waiver just to make the trip. You can bet that came with a long document of possibilities for things to go wrong. Yet they took a look at the odds and went anyway.
I'm not much of a one for karma, but in my opinion, once a wreck that took many lives is found, it should never be explored. Naval ship wrecks all over the World are military war graves and absolutely off limits to diving and submersible. To my mind civilian ships should be the same. Since 1985 the final resting place of 1,200 people had been turned into a carnival side show (not least in Belfast but that's another story).
Maybe the loss of these 5 people, if they are indeed lost, might stop these ghoulish and disrespectful dives forever.
No, and certainly not something you would want to climb into to visit one of the most inhospitable locations known to man…..
Space is relatively easy enough to survive in and in some cases a spacecraft outer skin can be just millimetres thick…. The issue is space is just really hard to get to, and get back from safely… whereas the deep ocean is extremely difficult to survive in, with pressures that are almost incomprehensible, yet it’s an extremely easy place to get to…
Id rather go to space than go to the deep ocean…
What an awful way to die. Poor souls if only they could rewind the clock im sure they would have done everything different. That's sub looked like something you would enter into the red bull competition. Looked amateur and I certainly wouldn't have set foot in it.
Maybe later watch "The abyss"
Similar but you’d be more aware of it with CO2 from my understanding.
Sounds like nitrogen poisoning?
A normal ascent should take about 2 hours or so, but assuming they could even find it, attach a wire to it, and then raise it up, far too much time will have passed S I’d say when bringing it up they’d be taking it nice and slow, but at the same time if they saw life inside it it might hasten their efforts to get it up quicker…
Isn't 10am GMT the deadline on that. Seems like there isn't a hope. Just a bit of window dressing.
Even if they found the sub, by the time it's raised to the surface would they not have run out of oxygen. Isn't it a very slow process to raise it?
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