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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He didn't seem like he "gets the show" when he made season 2 of Picard.

    He had said before that he is a huge TOS movie fan and that's his Trek which is why s2 had a lot of Voyage Home stuff and s3 was very Wrath of Khan.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    We don't know the entirety of how and why Season 2 was as it was, and having watched 12 Monkeys it's not like Matalas didn't know how to fashion a vaguely intelligent sci-fi show. That show was far better than it had any right to be. Perhaps Matalas had less control over Season 2 than 3, but even if the second season's stink is on him, his comments struck as someone at least aware of what he was doing.

    Not ascribing genius or saviour to Matalas, but he seems to be cannier and more attuned to Trek than others. It'd be nice if as time goes on they're the type of people in control.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He, apparently, was also the one pushing for a return to being on a ship with a starfleet crew as opposed to what was being insisted on originally



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That would track with my totally-without-evidence theory season 2 was more obligation than season 3; perhaps by way of a compromise regards budget for a start. It was notable how well season 3 looked (lighting notwithstanding) compared with season 2s shítty generic modern locations. Maybe Matalas got his TNG season 3 in exchange for a cheap bit of tat the year before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Evade


    Chabon was still on staff for season two too so I'm just going to blame him for it being so poor. I have no idea how involved he actually was but I'm still going to blame him.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    For one reason or another I didn't get a chance to keep watching this until now, but finally finished up episode 6 and uh, cards on table this is good stuff. As I've said I kept myself abreast so know what's coming by seasons end... but I've really enjoyed this journey so far. My posts in this thread talked a lot of shít about this show but credit where it's due, they finally got it right.

    Overcranked in places, and definitely has the energy of a Blockbuster than traditional meeting-room TNG but the spirit is all there, the characters true to themselves (even if more glib than they ever were). And credit to Patrick Stewart: this has been a sometimes phenomenal performance of subtly and wounded reflection. Lots of his best work simply moments of pain on his face as some truth or reality is imparted. I've even grown to like Jack. Hard to make someone that cocky and brattish while still charismatic in the Han Solo mode.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Michael Dorn was on the ShuttlePod Show and pretty much confirmed this, that there was significant resistance to what we got this year.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    You'd hope that with Season 3 of this, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds enjoyed by "all", the right people are eventually given the reigns of Trek - with Kurtzman, Goldsman etc. quietly shuffled off to an annex in the office nobody visits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Kurtzmann seems to have stepped back big time and Goldsman was a terrible fit who is hopefully gone. My problem with both of them and Paradise too is they are obsessed with Trek games, fan fiction and books most of which are crap and full of stupid plots.

    Matalas is obsessed with the movies which are exactly that movies. The Picard seasons 2 and 3 could be distilled down into movies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,220 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I'm kind of wonding if there's a good way to re-cut Season 1 into a TV-Movie that can decently explain why Picard is an android now. Beyond the whole "Picard is an Android" thing, you really don't need much of Season 1.

    • Raffi is surplus to requirements, her introduction in Season 3 isn't all *that* different to how we met her in Season 1.
    • LaSerena is essentially a Random Runabout by the time we get to Season 3, so we don't really need Rios (he is missed, but not needed).
    • Soji isn't really needed at all beyond some stuff in Season 1.
    • We can drop the creepy Romulan siblings
    • We already know Seven, so we don't need as much reintroduction. Season 2 doesn't really change much, and she chould just choose to join Starfleet without Raffi's odd encouragment in Season 2.
    • Jurati can simply go to the New Zealand jail after needlessly murdering Maddox...because that's a crime usually....and if we drop Season 2 we don't even need her anymore.

    Season 3 appears to have completely ignored Season 2, to the point of even nearly retconning it by saying the the Borg "hadn't been seen for over 10 years". So I feel that Season 2 just gets dropped entirely.

    Retool Season 1, fix the ending, and then go right into Season 3. That would be a decent enough Trek mini-series to finish off TNG.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Inviere




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well that's all coming from the premise that season 1 is somehow there to service season 3 which it is not. Season 1 was its own story with its own cast and unrelated to s3 other than the protagonist.

    All 3 seasons I think can be cut down into movies. They all have 5 or 6 pointless meandering episodes between set up and finale (which often has nothing to do with the set up)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Isn't that true of a lot of shows though? Even in this era of 10, 13 episode seasons it's rare enough you have a season without at least 2 or 3 meandering, pointless or filler episodes, against the broader story or plot. I think 6 or 8 episodes is the sweet-spot in terms of having a season where there's the least risk of fat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Some shows stand out as being really bad at the format though. The 3 Picard finales were pretty much unrelated to the first 8 episodes. It was like an even sharper about turn of the Discovery mid season twists.

    I gave up on the Walking Dead after I realized I could just watch the first and last episode of each season and miss nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,220 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    I think Stargate had the Ph.D in filler episodes.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Ideally yes, but Season 3's plot makes a major point out of Picard's original body being stolen and used by the Changlings. You'd need some way to explain why Picard is in another body. Season 1 covers that story, but it could be done a different way. Would rather drop Season 1 too...but the Picard body problem prevents that a bit.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The prolonged success of Walking Dead, such that it is spawning about a bazillion spin offs, baffles me. I really don't know what people see in those shows. Nothing happens, the characters barely exist as creatures with depth.

    I tried giving Stargate a go; many many times but ye gods it tested my patience for the amount of filler, or endless traipsing around the same Canadians woods.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Evade


    Stargate was good though and originally was all standalone episodes or two-parters. That said the do have the unlimited filler episode in 200, the one that was never intended to be part of continuity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I remember loving the original Stargate movie and the cool CGI-morph effect helmets of Ra's Horis guards. Was pretty excited for SG1, and tuned as soon as it cropped up on Sky One. Got all excited to see some more cool CGI armor guards jumping through the Stargate to attack Stargate Command but instead we got....Pez Dispensers. Giant Gold Pez Dispensers....and all the off-world people could now speak perfect English...my heart sank.

    I grew to get into the show and like it for a few years. Had no patience later on for Stargate: Atlantis and things just got silly when SGC started to have their own starships, but by then I had stopped watching activly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Can't speak for the post O'Neill stuff but the original run was no more or less filler than a Star Trek season.

    Does it make a major point out of Picards body. What did Picards body actually do in the end other than act as a macguffin to find Data ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Thing that bored me with SG1 was that it had a very self-constraining premise: in that there were no aliens or alien worlds except a constant stream of humans in cheap costumes, living in Vancouver's environs. I know there were those Grey Aliens but weren't they supposed to be hyper-evolved humans from the future or some-such? I just never bought into yet another episode where SG1 meet another primitive tribe. It just all felt very ... cheap.

    Trek has had plenty of filler too, but usually buttressed by a more exotic universe, distinct aliens and expansive horizons and - perhaps more critically at the end of the day - more money to actually put those worlds on screen with a degree of credibility. Many worlds ended up looking like California sure, but the effort was there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I loved SG-1/Atlantis but what really fecking annoyed me, about those woods...


    Why the feck was Earth the only bloody gate race with their gate in a military/guarded complex?

    Almost every episode the team just saunter onto a key planet unopposed



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Asgard were never human.

    You're being, slightly, unfair to the premise of Stargate.

    There were very few different alien species in the gate network and SG1 didn't have ships to go outside that network. The Goa'uld seeded that network with human chattel and prevented advancement. Yeah it was hokey but was a consistent internal logic



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Picard's body was used to extract the "Locutus of Borg" encoding from his parietal lobe. That was needed to turn Starfleet trasporters into mass-assimilators of the younger officers. This needed to be done long before Jack got turned into "Vox of Borg" or they'd have to then start with the trasporter assimilation plan after the Queen had caught him which wrecks the whole flow of things.

    I suppose you could potentially find a way for Picard's parietal lobe encoding to have been stolen from a current living Picard as part of flashback triggered by the arrival Vadic. For some reason they didn't kill him...potentially to keep him as a backup plan in case Jack died.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Evade


    A lot of them were primitive by comparison but a lot of the ones with near Earth levels of technology or higher did have an SGC type facility if they knew what the Stargate was. Then again sometimes it was in a museum.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There were dozens of episodes where the Goa'uld would have 2 or 3 Jaffa in a field (maybe with one of those big canons).

    Didn't Aphosis have one, ungarded on his ship, on the way to attack earth?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,512 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Most of the advanced planets just had the gate sitting around unused like some ancient dolmen.

    Makes sense because if those advanced groups knew what the gates were they would have SG teams of their own and you would end up with some stupid Kromagg type stuff.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Supposedly Amazon, who now own MGM, are interested in reviving Stargate in some form or another so it'll be curious if anything comes of that. Don't think there's a Sci-Fi IP that doesn't have some swirling interest from executives. Maybe this time they'll have more than a handful of dollars and whatever they can nab from the local renaissance fair's wardrobe.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Evade


    To be fair no one could have known the address of the stargate on the ship without some alternate reality shenanigans.



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