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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    We just don't know do we: what is happening really at the front lines, behind the front lines, what is being said by back channels and so on. Ukraine may be leaning heavily on the US at the moment but remember too there are other adjacent states with irons in this fire - Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Finland. Some or all may well step in yet if things start going south as you say, they'd do this unilaterally or as a group outside of NATO presumably.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Really going after the Russian Army leadership.


    As an aside, have the GLSDB's been delivered yet? There was a lot of talk about them back in March, when it was announced that Ukraine was going to get them, but little else since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Honest question. If Ukraine had modern NATO fighter jets how would they use them to their advantage? Could they take out Russia's various anti-aircraft equipment such as BUKs and S-300/400s from a safe distance? Then when they're all gone they could just fly over all sorts of artillery, radar, command posts, tanks etc and take them out at will, thereby easing the way for ground forces? Is it all as simple as that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Poland has already said they would go to Ukraines aid if it looked like Russia were going to win,

    They may well need some extra support at some stage, think why have they only been given limited weapons such as the HiMars, while other countries are snapping them up in Large numbers Ukraine still only has a handful,they wanted at least 300 modern Western tanks,the biggest number they are getting 100+ is older leopard 1 tanks and just over 100 IFVs and some Mobile artillery, yes they received a few months of Nato training but they are expected to fight like Nato with Combined Arms Operations without the resources, weapons,and vehicles to Carry out effective combined arms with their hands tied behind their backs and with their shoe laces tied together,

    You can't fight like Nato when your not part of Nato



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes and perhaps that it how this will develop further. Ukrainian tactics may be to make the current moves, take the losses and whatever gains until it becomes very obvious that others need to step in. And that is how this war will develop and escalate.

    Presumably NATO/ Allies thinking is how to defeat Russia with slow and progressive escalation, whilst not frightening the horses and having the situation blow up to a wider destructive level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    B1 heading to the Black Sea today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "What is your overall impression or forecast on how things will go, looking at all the available data and reports of the offensive so far."

    Looks like Ukraine did make a bit of progress on territory without committing the bulk of their armour and have now got a better fix on how the moskovytes are going to try defend the territory they have occupied. There were a couple of days when there was a spike in reported casualties of the moskovytes from the Ukrainian side followed by a drop in more recent days but a continued good level of moskovyte artillery destruction and there may be a pause in the offensive to some extent so the best way forward can be calculated. Too early to make any sort of forecast in my opinion but with more moderne weapons being sent to Ukraine looking to continue indefinitely I think its just a mater of how laong the moskovytes can hang on before they are forced to surrender, are turned to fertiliser or putin is forced out of power and someone willing to cut the moskovyte losses and negotiate their withdrawal comes into power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    It’s hard to see Poland and the baltics staying out of it if Russia make progress. That is the other side of the escalation equation that NATO has to consider.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭mike_cork


    Could be more Leopard 2's on the way for Ukraine

    "A clear majority in the National Council wanted to send a signal to Ukraine, but also and above all to Europe. By a vote of 132 to 59, he decided to decommission 25 Leopard 2 tanks from the army. The next stage is the Council of States, where there are significantly more critical voices in the ranks of the FDP and the center party. The tank trade is not yet sealed."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I think it was always on the cards, especially with Poland,they know if Russia turn thing's around (highly unlikely) that they would end up with Russian on their borders,and the smaller Baltics could struggle again outside aggression,so it always makes sense that they could form their own coalition against putin and move into ukraine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    I wouldn't lose faith just yet. We're still very very early into the offensive actions. Literally 6-7 days. This was never going to be a route like Kharkiv. Russia have had a literal year to set up these defenses. We've become too accustomed to watching videos of Russia throwing thousands of men and armor into the fire for centimetres of progress.

    There's going to be a lot of losses on UAF side for this one. And Russia are the ones predominantly controlling the social media space. So in addition to amplifying ukranian losses they'll also, true to form, be constantly posting fakes. While Ukraine will be posting mostly nothing. So be prepared for weeks and weeks, possibly months of bad news before the light at the end of the tunnel. My own opinion is that if by say the end of August/middle of September the UAF has made minimal gains then we might have cause for concern. Until then there's nothing we can do but steel ourselves.

    On the positive side we're already seeing signs that America and Europe are up to replacing the losses in armoured vehicles that UAF take. So as long as the soldiers survive the minefields and ambushes(which they seem to have so far) then the offensive will steadily eat into Russian fortifications. These lines only have to break once. The second the lines break in one single position every other defensive line north of this becomes useless. But getting to that point will be a hard slog no doubt.

    In addition Russia are going to continually face degrading logistics for supplying these positions due to long range fire and partisan attacks on supply lines. To the point where they simply may not have the ammunition to hold Ukraine back. The same cannot be said of Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Modern Russian jet's radar and AA missiles out range Ukraine's. When Ukraine get F16's, Russian jet's and radar will still out range old F16's. Russia have far too many AA systems inside Ukraine and on the Russian borders, so there's zero chance of Ukraine achieving air superiority.

    I'd suspect they would use them for close air support using JDAM-S. Nothing stopping them using HIMARS for that either. I don't think they will be game changers, but another tool for Ukraine to use.

    They can also help defend against mass missile/drone attacks by filling in gaps in Ukraine's air defense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes but perhaps not the other side of the escalation equation, but instead part of an escalation plan if needed. Or at least one scenario that NATO/ Allies are prepared to develop.

    So Ukrainian army has been equipped and armoured to an extent that is known to be limited but sufficient to allow a counter offensive. Thinking could be to suck this and see what happens. If it largely succeeds, well & good. If it doesn't, then escalation with a coalition of neighbouring states. Increasing the pressure on the Russian military and leadership gradually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Oryx only report visually confirmed losses. The real figure is much higher.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Depends on whether they are inside or outside the gun housing when struck.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Russia is losing about 20 pieces of artillery every day according to UA reports.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Another thing that has to be factored in is the depletion of Nato stocks of munitions and other equipment,at the other end of the stick you have cost of living crisis, inflation,and other conflicts threatening to kick off which will could all lead to calls from some to reduce the supports and yes we will see tweets about being in this for the long run,but elections and people could change that rethortic,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,223 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Should we be surprised Russia is throwing it's reserves at Ukraine outside of their defensive lines. This is the same army that sent around 70k soldier's to die charging at Bakhmut.

    Russia losing artillery, I just hope the losses claimed by Ukraine are accurate. If they're anywhere close it's going to be a long summer for Russia. They'll have to pull artillery from elsewhere to cover the losses which may open up an opportunity to strike elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Let's hear it @SafeSurfer what have we missed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    True, there are many factors at play that will feed into decisions. Still, a lot of bridges have been burnt and there appears to be solid agreement that Russia needs to be defeated as far as this invasion goes. That a line was crossed and no going back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    All the aid to Ukraine is western made, and sending it helps with the cost of living crisis, because more is manufactured, and this creates jobs and wages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not really no ,

    The majority of aid has come from older Stocks of equipment, very few jobs were created that already didn't exist



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    "Normal losses" Edit: Is this an honest translation?


    Post edited by zv2 on

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I know this full scale war has been going on for well over a year now but every so often I am simply amazed by some of the front-line footage that we are seeing. In past conflicts, video of artillery, mortars or rockets being fired off was a mainstay of war footage. Now though we are frequently seeing the pointy ends of things

    • Drone footage showing artillery destroying targets in the field
    • The video from kamikaze-style drones showing them ever so rapidly zeroing in on their targets until their mutual destruction is indicated by a cut feed
    • Footage from drones as they drop grenades into tanks & trenches or just observe movements below
    • Heads Up display footage of ATGMs being aimed and fired at targets
    • GoPro footage from infantry men as they go about clearing trenches or fighting in ruined towns
    • Mobile phone footage from civilians as cruise missiles arc through the skies overhead or far away explosions rattle their windows

    I think there is a danger that, for the passive observer, it makes it all feel like a computer game. I find myself having to remind myself at times that this is very much real. These are real lives being extingushed out there. Those guys don't get to respawn and go again.

    Post edited by Brussels Sprout on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    How sustainable is this?

    Surely there comes an inflexion point where Russia start running out of military hardware of sorts.

    Granted they make have lots of older tanks and IFV but what about their missiles, helicopters, and Mobile heavy artillery, do they have unlimited stocks of this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Well it can hardly effect the cost of living crisis much then. No harm to Bob from down the road if his country has or doesn't have an older tank lying around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭IdHidden


    The old stocks are replaced with new stock. so lots of jobs. and also if it is old stock it doesn't effect the cost of living crisis much then because it is a reduction cost of maintenance and guarding the equipment, win win.

    Post edited by IdHidden on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    I've always believed Ukraine is fabricating the amount of Russian loses for propaganda reasons as well as their own loses for same and that's okay and understandable given the tight spot they are in but i do feel reading this thread there is a hostile clique that goes on the offensive for the mere mention of same.

    Like it's war for christ sake and it's okay to point out loses for either side it's not like it makes a single bit of difference to the outcome we are all just a bunch of nobody's on the internet.

    I can't see Ukraine taking the risk of carrying out an action on NATO to make it look like the Russians either as if that got out support for them would dry up quicker than a spilt pint on a hot day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I remember sitting up all hours during desert storm waiting for the lastest gun cams of percision strikes,even seeing the aftermath of the High way of Death at the time which showed the true brutality of modern war ,go pros and other action cameras brought the 2nd gulf war to a new level,for the first time we saw raw Battle footage from the soldiers point of view , drones have brought another level but I find on the ground troop action more interesting to watch.

    Don't know wether it's a blessing or hinderance.



This discussion has been closed.
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