N24 - Cahir to Limerick Junction [design and planning underway]

No other country in Europe is designing new national primary routes between cities where one must yield to lesser traffic at any point outside of actual urban areas. I'd be happy to see any new road projects built in the past ten years or projected in the next ten that are "yield to lesser traffic" at any point - if anyone has examples that contradict me, please let us know.

It's absolutely nuts to actively design roads between cities with roundabouts on those roads, no matter what the local traffic patterns are. We need to stop thinking that roundabouts are appropriate on national primary routes. It's fairly obvious that if the road network improves, that the network will be utilised more.

As for the time saving possibility? The 63 km of road between Limerick to Cahir road was fairly regularly driven at off peak hours in under 45 minutes with no traffic, but any traffic at all and that could easily take 1h20. The new roads should make that journey be a nice consistent 35 minutes at 120kph. If it's a 100kph limit, that would be a pity and a missed opportunity.

The real advantage of clear free-flowing roads that don't vary in speed limit or get constricted at roundabouts or villages, is the near-guarantee of trip timings. It's rarely appropriate to think of a road's benefit as "the reduction in travel time" as that is often not much of an improvement compared to the previous best-case scenarios. Now, if one were to compare the travel times at the average high-utilisation times, that would a lot more useful - but that is not how the average driver's mind works.

I honestly think they will be temporary. It just doesnt make sense.

On a different note, some local politicians are pissed off. Only 1m approx. initially given to the project instead of an expected 3+ mil. Seems a little short sighted.

This is getting Eamon Ryaned folks. Best bet is it is still held up until the Greens are out at the next election and a re-design.

Absolutely low grade dross being planned here.

It's the people in the regional centers that should be most angry. Being short changed compared to roads to Dublin.

The 'M20' is getting Eamon Ryaned too. Doesn't need to be motorway all the way don't you know? Like all those other first world countries that accept half assed excrement for primary road links.

That's what we're being served.

You've been Eamon Ryaned.

The greens.

Voting in elections.

Eamon Ryan.

Eamon Ryan.

Let's engage seriously, I suggest we could discuss how busy it is? Where is the point of particular concern to you?

East of Tipp town has AADT of 6,648 with 6.5% HGV's

Cahir has 7,501 with 11% HGV's

West of Clonmel is 11,500 with 8% HGV's

East of Clonmel has 14,000 with 6% HGV's

East of Carrick has 7,000 with 8.5% HGV's

There's two stretches there, particularly centred around Clonmel that are above single-lane level.

What KrisW1001 wrote is demonstrably true: "Most countries would use a single-carriageway for this kind of traffic level".

Without even referencing standards, the N40 is beginning to fail somewhere above 80,000 AADT.

I fully agree that there's very few countries that would design the N24 as more than 2+2. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

The post you took exception to had nothing to do with roundabouts at all. You only pivoted to discussion of roundabouts after I posted (googled!) numbers of traffic. The post you took exception to read simply: "There’s no way in the world this road would be built at anything above 2+2. Most countries would use a single-carriageway for this kind of traffic level."

Because you first accused someone of knowing "sfa about how busy the road actually is", I - in the most simplistic manner possible - googled which of the two of you were correct. And there wasn't any basis to what you wrote. None whatsoever. The poster "KrisW1001" was absolutely 100% correct in what they wrote. And when I posted that, you accused me of "throwing up stats" and pivoted to talk about roundabouts and the numbers of entry/exits and wrote that "you or stats won't change my opinion".

Of course nobody can discuss those roundabouts rationally because no design has been published. You may be right or you may be wrong about the roundabouts. But...well...I have no idea.

Regarding "emotional baseless and uninformed", you seem to have taken that as an insult but it was again intended as fact, though a harsh way of expressing it.

Your rationale for this road needing to be motorway grade was baseless because you have no factual basis for your argument. If there were any facts to back it up, I would gladly read them, but they have yet to be shared and indeed you've pivoted to entirely unrelated points now. It's uninformed because you have stated a belief that a road with such low traffic numbers should or would ever be considered for motorway grade. That's just not true. It was emotional because you introduced emotional topics such as Waterford and Limerick being "focal points" as a basis for a road upgrade and you're trying to inject urgency to the issue saying things like "this is the only chance", and you're trying to make it a case of "us and them" by referring to the end users of the road etc. Whereas traffic and safety are what really matters to the chosen design. And actually you have no idea what roads other people travel on.

If you have access to a published design regarding the roundabouts I will very happily discuss them too. But not without seeing some details because my opinions would be baseless and uninformed. Likely fuelled by my own personal emotions too, realistically.

And regarding the number of entry/exits, I honestly don't know any more whether you want to discuss it or not. You brought it up but didn't seem to like it when I referred to it. My preference would always be for as few entrances/exits/gates/etc as possible on an inter-urban route like this, personally, but that's not always easy to do.

The junction east of Bansha pretty much has to be a roundabout given how sharply the corridor turns here, but I think all of the others will be compact GSJs, pretty much like N22 Macroom.

So VRT is a road tax too? It's a tax and you have to pay it before you can drive on the road.

Motor tax is not determined by the type of roads you drive on, how far you drive, etc. You can post as much Armitage Shanks Interface Defecation Scenario as you like but the fact remains that the tax is levied against the motor, not the roads.

Whens the next announcement?

It didn't change.

I know but it says here single carriageway won out?