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Conspiracy about the flat earth conspiracy - Thread bans in OP

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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    repeating this as it was conveniently disregarded last time




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    A lot of Flat Earthers don't believe there's an edge to fall off. Rather there is a giant ice wall where Antarctica is. What's beyond that is a bit vaguer and isn't speculated much on.

    The conspiracy goes that all governments around the world have their navies patrolling this ice wall to prevent anyone from getting close enough to take a picture of it. How this gels with the current arguments that you can see over the horizon simply by zooming in far enough is not clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The earth's curvature explains it. Plenty of curvature calculators online, no confusion at all.

    Modern cameras have high levels of zoom, meaning it's possible to see it in action.

    The video I found and posted earlier has two boats, one closer, the other further away.

    If you're going to explain away the entirety of human space travel as fake/CGI (as you've done in previous posts), not sure why you are making any effort here.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,077 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    isnt it very "convenient" to:

    1. believe the earth is flat
    2. believe that the laws of physics are wrong
    3. believe the moon landings never happened
    4. believe that all space travel is fake
    5. believe that all governments are hiding these facts for some unknown, completely pointless reason.

    and yet us "globers" are the uneducated sheep 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Then to express all that, yet be coy about your actual beliefs and being unwilling to actually detail the conspiracy theory.

    I think that shows that conspiracy theorists know full well how little there is behind their theories.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    As we're not viewing from below the base, what with the ground being in the way, it definitely shouldn't be getting lower as they get further away.

    Lets assume that the cliff is about half the height of the turbines, or at least closer to that than to the base. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Incredible composite infrared photograph here capturing the Notre Dame de la Garde from the summit of the Canigó - total distance: 252km. Blows every curve calculator online out of the water. Maybe all the naysayers here would have time to code up a new online curve calculator that does work. Image also very clearly shows the alps in the background for good measure over a cool 400km away.


    Great thing about the infrared photos is that it doesn't pick up haze or other distortions caused by the atmosphere.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How can it be impossible to observe the curvature at such distances, but at the same time claimed that the curvature should be massively more obvious at far shorter distances. How are you wrongly interpreting the maths regarding the curvature at two opposite extremes of wrong at the same time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    if it has no edge, how come you haven't gotten lost in the never ending ocean?

    jaysus no, believing in santa is flat earther level

    can you share all this video evidence with us for the laugh, you can only see items out to about 5m at ground level because the earth is flat, high objects you can see much further, like the top of snowden on a very clear day

    do you know how far away that is?

    you can see saturn, without a zoom lense, do you know how far away that is

    you can see the sun, do you know how far away that is?

    you can see other stars, do you know how far away they are



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Nothing in that article about flat earth. More demonstrations of how conspiracy theorists dishonestly misrepresent things. Or demonstrating that they don't actually read things.


    Still not actually addressing previous points or the contradictions of previous abandoned claims.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    @Marcus Antonius

    A few question:

    Who does the flat earth conspiracy benefit?

    How does it benefit the aforementioned group?

    Why don’t you disprove it be going off the edge of the earth?

    Are you scared of flying?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,494 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    according to curvature calculators i have found, the earth curves by 3139m every 200km. so in perfectly clear air, you'd just be able to see the summit of a 3140m mountain from 200km away.

    or if you're standing on a 3140m mountain, you'd be able to see the peak of a similar mountain from 400km away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Surely some flat earthers could cobble together a few quid and charter a flight from Auckland or Buenos Aires or somewhere and prove their theory? 5-6 hour flight and bang - you're in space!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The only coherent theory for this I've heard is the notion that all governments and scientists are are of a giant satanic conspiracy to trick the whole world into believing it's round so that people will be tricked into believing the bible is wrong.

    It benefits them because they are actually in league with Satan and he is able to give them infinite money or something.


    No idea if that's something the resident proported flat earthers believe, they've always been careful to never address this question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    Very simple.........they cannot explain any of these


    Can any of the globe gurus answer me this?

    Do pilots factor in curvature when calculating Top of Descent? I haven't found any evidence to suggest they do and surely they would need to

    If the earth is supposedly spinning at 1000mph eastward at the equator, then how come a plane flying eastward at roughly half that speed manages to reach its destination?

    Surely they should just go westward and wait for the ground to come zipping by?


    Here's a multiple choice question

    How is it remotely possible to land a plane on a runway when the ground is moving at such a speed?

    A. I'm going to answer this with a question as I have no clue

    B. Earths surface is magically velcroed to the surface by gravity

    C. Dont be silly, pilots dont factor in curvature or rotation when flying planes

    D. Next question please 🙄



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    @Lex Luthor You are aware that you are threadbanned as per this instruction issued yesterday.

    Do not post in this thread again.

    Hilda



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also, I'm curious how NASA benefits from this when they have to spend so much money creating fake space programs, bribing scientists and other space agencies AND maintain the secret navy that protects the ice wall around the perimeter of the world.

    It also doesn't actually answer the question if you notice. Doesn't explain why the funders behind NASA would throw trillions away for decades (possibly centuries) just to fund NASA's CGI department.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Lex Luthor forum banned for 2 weeks for continuing to post in a thread they've been banned from, ignoring the request re proper discussion and ignoring the thread ban reminder. Posts and replies deleted.

    @sydthebeat as would be standard across boards if you have a problem with mod action, PM the mod. Do not discuss mod action on thread it's off topic.

    HS



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,466 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    B (and I presume you meant atmosphere is magically velcroed).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    The Notre Dame de la Garde should absolutely not be visible at this distance. The summit of Canigo is 2785m. The height of the top of Notre Dame de la Garde above sea level is 191m.

    I did a google search for "Earth Curve Calculator" and took the top three searches (disregarding some painfully simplistic ones) and here is how much of Notre Dame de la Garde should be obscured by the earth's curvature:

    Calculator 1: 100% - All of Notre Dame de la Garde should be obscured. Nothing would be visible unless it is 317m high (Source: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/earth-curvature)

    Calculator 2: 100% - All of Notre Dame de la Garde should be obscured. This calculator also calculated 317.4519m (https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/?d0=252&h0=2785&unit=metric)

    Calculator 3: 100% - All of Notre Dame de la Garde should be obscured. At least there is some consistency in the calculators I picked as this also calculated 317.4518m (https://physicscalculatorpro.com/earth-curvature-calculator/)

    This is very awkward. So which is it then? Are all the curve calculators wrong, is there some natural phenomenon happening here or maybe we are not being told the truth about how large the earth is?

    Someone has some explaining to do...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But the link you provided make no such claim at all. It's a blog about a guy who takes long distance photography, but isn't a flat earther. He doesn't find it strange that he's able to see something that you claim should be behind the curve. You are not able to explain this contradiction, so you just ignore it and continue to misrepresent the link.


    The most likely explanation is that you are using the calculators incorrectly, or are pretending to to avoid the uncomfortable point you've fallen into.


    As for explaining, you have abandoned several points where you were unable to explain why certain photos were showing things disappearing over the horizon.

    You've also yet to actually explain your beliefs in any detail.


    Again perfect demonstration of the inherent hypocrisy in conspiracy theories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭Honorable


    "The conspiracy goes that all governments around the world have their navies patrolling this ice wall to prevent anyone from getting close enough to take a picture of it"

    How come no one ever writes a book 'I was a flat earth wall patroller' like they do regarding UFOs ' I am an ex Nasa scientist I saw the dead alien /craft etc'



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    To many flat earthers, those authors are actually part of a conspiracy, as there's obviously no aliens, as there is no such thing as space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,092 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The about above viewing position was not in relation to the turbines. I was explaining how perspective works.

    You said the the top lowers at the same rate the bottom rises. That is incorrect, and wouldn’t be the case even if the earth was flat. It’s not relevant to the flat Earth nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,092 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It’s a distance of 252km, taken from up a mountain. The fact it’s so high makes the range so far.

    From a higher vantage point and a higher target. You can see further. I linked to a calculator on the last page that validated the distance of a photo that 252km. It’s not even noteworthy.

    Great thing about the infrared photos is that it doesn't pick up haze or other distortions caused by the atmosphere.

    IR light still refracts like visible light. But it’s not obscured by haze, that’s true. Which means if the Earth well flat, you could photograph New York from Galway harbour. Well done, you just complete disproved the flat Earth delusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Another instance of a solid statement backfiring because it wasn't thought through enough. Another contradiction that has to be ignored. Another question that will never be addressed: why isn't there any infrared pictures of New York from the west coast of Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,092 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    There are a lot of variables that affect how light travels. Such as how fast it goes (it's not a constant as people often mistakenly believe). As such those calculators are simplified by making some assumptions. Luckily, the calculators list those assumptions.

    This app calculates how much a distant object is obscured by the earth's curvature, and makes the following assumptions:

    Calculator 2;

    the earth is a convex sphere of radius 6371 kilometres

    light travels in straight lines

    Both of those assumptions are incorrect. I'm pointing out the first as incorrect to highlight the simplistic nature. Only the second one is relevant here to how far we can see. Obviously everyone knows that light does not always travel in straight lines, light bends as it passes through mediums of different densities. And as all three calculators has the sae result, we know they made the same assumptions.

    Calculator 3

    The beam can bend down substantially and even strike the earth in extreme circumstances where temperature rises with height and dry air overlays warm air (as is common around coastlines). This phenomenon is known as "anomalous propagation" by meteorologists.

    The calculator you posted even confirm that in coastal conditions, air patterns can cause refraction. This would mean the horizon we see is further around the curvature. Here is a calculator that considers refration;

    Calculator: ( https://www.metabunk.org/curve/?d=252&h=2785&r=6371&u=m&a=n&fd=60&fp=3264 )

    Geometric results (no refraction): Hidden= 317.45 meters

    With the refraction approximation Refracted Hidden= 177.49 meters. And that's at a temperature of 72 degrees. Lower temperature will refract more. You'd need to know that to get accurate details, as the note below states;

    Note: Not accurate for observations over water very close to the horizon (unless the temperature and vertical temperature gradient are accurate). But that's all moot, you proved your self wrong when you brought up IR photos, were are all the photos across vast oceans. Come on man, is this really the best you can do. Its not even difficult to prove this nonsense wrong. You were better off when you were misquoting Neil Degrasse Tyson. Embarrassing



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Funny how the sceptics always drag the debate into ridiculous hypotheticals when they can't debunk something. There is no camera powerful enough to take such a picture, and you know this as well as I do. And even if there was, similar to the image of the turbines, the angle would be so acute that even slight roughness in sea conditions would obscure everything, let alone larger waves. Just shows the irony of that Fr Ted meme being regularly posted by the sceptics when they clearly have no grasp of the concept themselves.

    Ah, the refraction argument, the disclaimer all these curve calculators use to explain away how useless they are. In order for light to bend around the curve it would require an extremely intricate configuration of very specific air pressure gradients between the object and the observer. You would have a greater chance of winning the lotto 4 times a day and get struck by lighting twice for good measure than for the air densities to configure themselves in such a way that they could bend the light around the curve over a distance of 252km. It's a ridiculous argument and only satisfies the most scientifically clueless. (i.e. people who use earth curve calculators)



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    More assertions that don't actually make any sense.

    You claim that there's is no camera "powerful enough". This statement does not have any actual meaning. You don't define what you mean by power.

    This is also a new excuse by yourself. Your fourth in your attempts to explain the flaws in your theory, completely different from your previous ones, unmentioned before. Again, it seems more like something you've made up on the fly because you're struggling and getting more desperate.

    You then return to your silly notion of "rough seas" and giant invisible waves.


    You don't understand the Father Ted meme at all it seems.


    It's also very funny that you're accusing people of not understanding science given your previous claims about how rockets cannot work in space.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Oh and just to completely debunk the notion of "no camera being powerful e nough".


    This camera can pick up things a billion kilometres away from Earth. Marcus claims that cameras cannot see 5000 Km.

    So either he is simply claiming something that isn't true, or he also believes that Saturn and Jupiter are less that 5000 Km away from the flat Earth.


    Edit: Here's a link where you can buy a version that will take the infrared pictures that Markus was earlier claiming proved the flat earth theory:


    Again, nothing at all stopping flat earthers from taking a picture of New York from Galway and providing proof.

    Since:

    The maximum ever measured wave height from a satellite is 20.1m during a North Atlantic storm in 2011

    Height:

    Height of copper statue (to torch): 151 feet 1 inch (46 meters)

    From ground level to torch: 305 feet 1 inch (93 meters)


    The entirety of the statue should be visible from Galway on a flat earth regardless of sea conditions.



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