Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

They'd be more than entitled under such a system to defer paying the property taxes until the house is sold/transferred, if they weren't cash liquid. But someone earning €300k a year isn't exactly likely to be struggling. Theres also nobody forcing said person to live in such an expensive house - its entirely a personal choice if someone wants to live in a multi-million euro house. Are people who drive Ferraris being unfairly charged a higher rate of motor tax than people who drive Ford Mondeos? Because its the exact same principle.

@Bass Reeves plenty of places have property taxes in excess of 1%. In New Jersey its 2.49% per year, in Illinois 2.27%. In France its up to 1.7%. In Chile its up to 2% etc. Theres nothing remotely unusual or controversial about it.

We're going to have to figure out some way to prevent foreign investors flooding the market here as has happened in countless other cities like Vancouver or London. And ideally something to encourage downsizing while we're at it. Short of property taxes with exemptions for low and middle earning tax residents I haven't heard of any better ideas.

affordability is definitely dropping with each rate rise

more and more anecdotal stories of young people in their 30s giving up hope on buying a house and deciding to travel instead

Property prices fall for third month in a row

The property market is slowing down as mortgage rate hikes impact the market.

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-prices-fall-for-third-month-in-a-row/a1276061782.html

6th monthly decrease in property prices in Dublin in a row. Interestingly houses saw a larger monthly drop than apartments. Last time we saw 6 months of decreases was in 2008 and that led to 33 months of monthly decreases.

Expect to see media outlets only quote the headline YoY growth figure of 1.7% (for better or worse)

EDIT: I was wrong https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-prices-fall-for-third-month-in-a-row/a1276061782.html

Also of note is that February saw the highest volume of Dublin second hand sales since records began in 2010 and highest January volume since 2014

So true. So much so that myself and my wife have decided to go on the dole for a couple of years. Sick of paying so much tax. Feel like im working for the state. Might as well let them pay some of it back now and have 40 hours each back to ourselves every week.

persistent high inflation coupled with high house prices and multiple rate rises definitely hitting some would be buyers

recent job insecurity in tech industry etc. may also be affecting some buyers

Profit for bank, investment fund, developer, builder.

State has money coming out it's ears and is perplexed about what to do with

Government number 1 and 2 priority is housing and inflation

Housing is the greatest cost for most families up and down the country

What is the definition of clueless?

We're getting close to the point where the Irish Times are no longer going to be able to use the 12 month change to frame the narrative of prices increasing. I'm not sure what they're going to do!

Another monthly price drop of .6% have yet to drill into the report but if Dublin prices drops this would make it 6 months in a row that Dublin property prices have dropped.

A 1% property tax would raise about €7B a year.

We could cut income tax rates by a quarter.

Hows about no more taxes until our spend side is sorted I find it funny people think there is only one way to go in this country the powers that in control are wasting billion after billion and our solution is tax more or differently?

Actual price drops and not a drop in the amount that prices were going up - Property prices in Dublin are about 2.5 - 3% less than this time 6 months ago.

You seem to be ignoring the other examples in my post. Would you call France a low income tax country? You absolutely can have high income tax and property taxes, as plenty of countries around the world have today.

Even in the US, a household in New Jersey (to use one of my listed examples, with a yearly property rate of 2.49%) with an income of $300k pays a tax rate of 35% on income. An Irish household earning €300k pays an equivalent of 44%. Not a million miles off, and the lower income tax, and higher tax on property, is surely much more beneficial to society. We'd be much better off taxing people's unproductive assets, rather than taxing them for working harder and getting promotions/higher pay.

And property tax is even better in that non-tax residents would still have to pay it, theres no escaping it. They'd actually have to contribute to local services. As well as other benefits like encouraging downsizing etc.

Higher property taxes have been empirically shown to do literally the opposite of what you're suggesting. They encourage older people, who've kids have moved out, to downsize.

The immigration/emigration statistics are also very clear, Ireland is not bleeding high income earners - we still have net immigration even at the top income levels.

Most of wealthy Europe has higher marginal tax rates than Ireland at the high end of income - 55% in Denmark, France, Austria etc. With higher PRSI equivalents on top too. If you want to move to another country where you can earn €300k as a household and pay lower income taxes than Ireland you're going to struggle hugely. Which is why despite moaning about high earners being taxed too much in Ireland very few actually do move.

As I said in my last reply, the issue of foreign money buying Irish property is only accelerating. And will reach Vancouver/London destructive proportions if no measures are taken to restrict it. So short of higher property taxes, which you apparently object hugely to, what better, more effective, solution would you offer instead?

Really I think most intelligent people would agree that our spending is an absolute joke. Just a little sample of the waste going on.

https://www.pbp.ie/government-continues-to-waste-public-money-on-irish-water/

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=167650395469148

Not to mention other things like the price tag on the children's hospital or paying politicians 3/4 pensions no matter how competent or bailing out banks that were not systemic but the boyos buddies had to be bailed out, or what about Nama put the properties in here and anything decent cherry picked and sold for a pittance to insiders. How's about the amount we spend on our HSE and when you visit a hospital here its in an absolute dire condition so much so most third world countries would be ashamed of it. Yeah but you keep banging your drum that we need more taxes so the lads can keep burning through it. I think most educated people on here would agree the vast majority of people pay more than enough in taxes and get a p1ss poor return with regards to services for it and its time to take a microscope out and find out where our cash goes and get some accountability.