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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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    #2972
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,885 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Bus park&ride is being planned here, initially on the N11 but they have a strategy that includes other primary routes.



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    #2973
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Bus park n ride is hardly the cutting edge now



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    #2974
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,885 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515861#Comment_120515861

    it was in response to the post above which mentioned Bus P&R in the north.



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    #2975
    McGrath5
    Registered Users Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515573#Comment_120515573

    But the title of the thread is cities reducing car access, a few bus stops with car parks in relatively rural locations hasn’t got much to do with this discussion.



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    #2976
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Lisbon to hold a three month trial in which cars driving through the city will be banned (you can still drive to the city)...

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-24/lisbon-car-ban-limits-through-traffic-in-city-center




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    #2977
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    A very effective method of eliminating congestion entirely as Oslo has proven.

    Dublin could to the same with a handful of car bans on certain streets. Its madness that you can still drive on the quays from the port through the city centre out to the M50. Even if we stopped cars travelling east-west on both sides of O'Connell Bridge, we'd remove a huge % of cars.



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    #2978
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518133#Comment_120518133

    Hopefully this will be successful and made permanent (selfishly, because we're planning on visiting lisbon in the latter half of the year)



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    #2979
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    worth pointing out again that lisbon has a decent underground metro system.



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    #2980
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518484#Comment_120518484

    Its also worth pointing out that Dublins bus, luas, rail and cycle network would easily absorb any additional loading from a similar ban though. Removing cars from the central quays for example would free up between 50 to 80% of the road cross section for more efficient transport modes.



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    #2981
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518749#Comment_120518749

    Indeed. As Dublin Bus keep saying, the biggest impediment to a better bus service is the number of cars on the road.



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    #2982
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The M50 Westlink, the busiest (by aadt) and most expensive Road in the history of the state is still carrying less people than the 140 year old O'Connell Bridge after multi millions of euro of upgrades. We've been chasing a fallacy in transport planning.



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    #2983
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,547 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518997#Comment_120518997

    If, because of reduced congestion, the average bus speed increases by 10%, then the bus service improves by 10% in capacity, and travel time is reduced by 10%, and fuel consumption is reduced.

    And all for free.



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    #2984
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,885 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519782#Comment_120519782

    really, where are you seeing those figures? I wouldn't drive across OCB to go anywhere in a fit, it's so awkward to get around that part of the City Centre. most of the actual cars I see in the CC are taxis, the worst congestion seems to be a bit further out around the canals, Ballsbridge, Drumcondra etc.



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    #2985
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    but it's not just cars crossing OCB; he mentioned carrying people. there are a lot of bus routes, and the luas, crossing OCB so it carrying more people than the M50 is probably within the realms of possibility.

    e.g. a quick back of the envelope calculation - if you adhere to the two second rule, 30 cars would pass a single point on one lane on the M50 every minute. say you guess an average occupancy of 2 per car, that's 60 people per minute x 3 lanes, 180 a minute. and that's probably generous as regards car occupancy at rush hour.

    the larger luas trams have a capacity of 400 people - say they're half full every three minutes, that's ~70 a minute on the luas - add two buses each minute also, you're easily up at the same 180 per minute figure.



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    #2986
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519973#Comment_120519973

    And won't someone think of the pedestrians?!?



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    #2987
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120519973#Comment_120519973

    2 per car is wildly generous aswell!



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    #2988
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,093 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518484#Comment_120518484

    Careful, you’ll be accused of ‘a great display of whatabouttery in a minute’ 🤪

    ive spent a bit of time in Lisbon and it’s a total pleasure to navigate by public transport.

    Lisbon :

    4 metro lines, 56 metro stations.

    6 tram lines, others planned

    1 cable car

    1 funicular

    also a plethora of urban and suburban train services.

    all the above conveniently and professionally integrated with each other and the bus services.


    ^^^ that’s how it should be done.


    Lisbon, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, London, Copenhagen and Nice… all cities I’ve spent a good portion of time in and if I had to live in any… I wouldn’t bother driving….I wouldn’t need to. Here…. No, I’d need to



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    #2989
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521228#Comment_120521228

    Yes, last I had read on it, the average occupancy is 1.1 people.



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    #2990
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I picked that deliberately to overstate the occupancy. However, the occupancy figures I remember seeing stated of I think 1.2 were for the quays I think - and they could be different for the m50. Not by much, but I didn't want to make assumptions to falsely boost the argument.



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    #2991
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    In Dublin the car occupancy for crossing the Canal Cordon is 1.1 and that is a typical figure also found in the USA.



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    #2992
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120518997#Comment_120518997

    It's a shame that Dublin Bus are remarkably quiet about the huge impediment resulting from abuse of bus lanes, mostly for commercial deliveries. Try the Rathmines to Georges St axis during morning rush hour, and you'll inevitably find a number of vans or trucks blocking the bus lane, mostly pub and food deliveries.



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    #2993
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120521360#Comment_120521360

    An orbital Metro line for Lisbon would be nice, but that's getting ridiculously picky - was staying at a hotel near the Airport, near a yellow-line Metro station that took the guts of an hour to get to the Airport via metro - found out for the way back that they had a shuttle bus that took about 10mins.

    Over here, you'd only have a shuttle bus and only if the airport bothered.



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    #2994
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Interesting (and very valid) perspective on Irish Planning...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/05/02/galway-looks-like-a-mouth-full-of-broken-teeth-says-one-of-worlds-leading-planners/




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    #2995
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547639#Comment_120547639

    Don't agree with the suggestion that "Ireland’s centralised structures, with city councils having very little power, were partly to blame for these problems". Galway itself is the perfect example of why we need centralised structures dictating to local government, Galway City Council is now moving to an office further away from the city centre and is buying hundreds of parking spaces with the new building! So much for leading by example in terms of sustainability.

    I fully believe that if local government here had more power, they'd be pursuing less sustainable practices and promoting more car-centric policies. That might change with demographics over the next decade or so but can't see it changing in the short term.



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    #2996
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,943 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547861#Comment_120547861

    Agree - not in the short term. Something has to give though. Since late 70's once the FF Lynch Government removed rates; our Local Gov has been continually hollowed out to the extent that we now have the most centralised systems in Europe; as a result alot of our TD's are really of local Cllr grade rather than National Legislators. I think we need to have less Cllr's but make it a full time position, might attract that younger demographic.



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    #2997
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I heard mannix flynn on the radio this morning and was quite embarrassed for people who might have voted for him. The topic was the government introducing the tax free rent a room scheme to social housing tenants.

    Mannix: "someone working in banking isn't going to drive their Mercedes into one of these estates wearing their suit and drive out in the morning to go down to the IFSC"

    I dunno is it drunkenness or is there something really wrong with him but that's what a Councillor is in the capital city, imagine them out in red neck places.



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    #2998
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Thought this was somewhat relevant here

    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/05/04/dublin-is-worst-capital-in-europe-for-public-transport-ticket-pricing-finds-greenpeace/




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    #2999
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552899#Comment_120552899

    The way that they calculate it is bull though. 0 points for the leap card cap, or for the employer card. I get that we've got a long way to go, but this is just inaccurate and unhelpful.



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    #3000
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,618 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553233#Comment_120553233

    Does the Leap Card cap cover companies like the Swords Express? I know you can pay with your Leap card, but I think it's dear enough.



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    #3001
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Has someone explained to Greenpeace how price is pretty low down the list of what makes good public transport?



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