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Picard 3x10- 'The Last Generation' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

1356

Comments

  • Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Everything. It a nostalgia thing probably . I was a kid watching Kirk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Evade


    It was a much better send off for the crew than Nemesis or the first two series. It wasn't perfect and could definitely have been pared down to about five episodes but it moved forward and had characters acting like older versions of themselves. I read somewhere earlier Matalas originally had a much wider net featuring DS9 and more Voyager characters but couldn't get the budget for that many legacy actors so he had to cut it down significantly. That probably explains why the Changelings feature so heavily.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    So what makes you think this team can do a show disconnected from nostalgia.

    How will Star Trek Legacy look different to Discovery ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,333 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    OK, I've rewatched it this evening and am a lot happier with the finale.

    I think maybe part of my hesitation yesterday was that there was a LOT going on in that last hour and it fairly blasts through two thirds of it on first viewing.

    A few nitpicks (like the scale of the -D in the overhead shot seems WAYYY too small!) and I'm still not happy with the Titan rename, but overall it was a great wrapup to the TNG story, although I'm still not sold on the proposed Legacy teaser with Seven and Raffi.

    One thing that I saw on Youtube was Dave Cullen's alternate ending proposal and I really liked it!

    The idea of the -D being recomissioned following the damage to the fleet and needing to reactivate older officers makes a lot of sense to me, and I love the idea of the refit tying into the TNG "All Good Things" finale of a triple-nacelled Enterprise-D under Riker's command continuing the voyages of a ship and officers that clearly still have a lot to give.

    That would have been a far better "Legacy" idea - familiar but still able to move forward with new stories and characters introduced as it goes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭ilovesmybrick




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  • Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ...



  • Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PS: I bloody hated all the soft focus shots on the bridge of Enterprise. They gave us that beautiful set and then constantly blurred it



  • Posts: 7,681 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If its a good as Picard 3 it's fine

    Discovery was sh!te. Turned off after

    S1 1/2 .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That's what I find a bit confusing about the praise for this series. To me it just looks like shtty Discovery plots and plot holes with some nostalgia stuff thrown in.

    I mean imagine the uproar if Discovery was doing skids and slides around a Borg cube like an X-Wing crossed with a Honda Civic or if Spock was taking people out with a phaser shotgun like Beverly was.

    What if Vadic and her cigarette smoking full on panto self showed up in Discovery. Would people be ok with that.

    That's why I was wondering what you thought this team would bring to a new series. I can't see why people think this Matalas guy who was a big part in the Picard season 2 time travel plot should be let anywhere near more Trek so I'm trying to see what I missed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Evade


    You seem to hate any hint of nostalgia (curious if you have the same feelings towards the TOS movies) so that definitely colours your view but one of the largely agreed highlights of the season was Shaw, a new character. Jack wasn't bad and Even Raffi wasn't as bad as previous seasons too so it's at least possible they can write decent characters. Some of the little filler plots were good too and would have made more interesting stand alone episodes than to stretch out the the main lot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I enjoyed PIC 3 and also 1 (2 was one of the greatest heaps of sht I have ever seen)

    My issue isn't with the season or nostalgia it's trying to understand why people think that Matalas can write a non nostalgia show or how people can suddenly excuse stuff they hated only a year ago.

    Jack was a grand actor and character but his back story as Picards secret son, the Borg secret weapon and the 8 episodes of Stranger Things dream sequences and teasing was every bit as sht as what Discovery does.

    Shaw was brilliant but if he was in Discovery he would have been "cucked" by 7 and would have been made "a btch" for the way he kept handing over command. Discovery did have good characters too for a season before it killed or ruined them.

    Good luck with Legacy but I'm fully sure Matalas is going to massively disappoint all the people who hated PIC 1 and 2 and hate what ye call "STD"

    Personally I want the next Star Trek to be much better than the vacant mediocrity that was PIC 3



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Evade


    I'm not really seeing what your seeing. If it was more discovery-like Shaw would have been fawning over Seven an deferring when he didn't have to, just because. Instead he relinquished command to go duct tape type ship back together or when he was injured. Even Shaw's little epilogue makes up for his apparent dereliction in the first few episodes he was giving her free reign on what should have been a milk run as a taste of what having your own ship is like.

    Jack as Picard's son is a little thin and the inherited Borg bio transceiver is a huge coincidence but no one is really saying it's perfect but it's the second best season of live action Star Trek in the last decade.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭eadrom


    Picard season 3 wasn’t the best of the best but it was good enough, in ways that Discovery wasn’t.

    Picard had Vadic, bit of a cartoon villain. But better than Discovery’s Georgiou and the entire mirror universe, and then that Orion lady was like something from bad Marvel tv.

    Shapeshifters in Picard weren’t handled the best? Better than the Klingons in disco.

    Crew of the Titan not perfect? But do you even remember the Disco crew?

    Too much TNG nostalgia in Picard? But it is explicitly a follow up and conclusion to TNG. Disco tried to be new but couldn’t help it with Spock’s brand new human half sister, then bringing in actual Spock and Kirk.


    Picard season 3 was fine. And good fun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Saved episodes 8, 9 and 10 up and watched them last night. Nostalgia or not, they were as good as I have ever seen. Overall Picard S3 was up there with the best!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    My point isn't about one being better than the other. I enjoyed Picard and hated Discovery.

    My point is that all the warning signs are there that going forward this Matalas guy is gonna be no better when given a non nostalgia crew.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭eadrom


    Oh yeah, true. I’d say Picard worked despite the problems. Even the idea that they would want to call the show “Legacy” rings massive alarm bells for me. Really nailing those member-berries to the mast.

    I’m sure there’ll be some enjoyment and entertainment to be found going forward but overall I’m no more optimistic for Trek’s future now than I was six months or a year ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Picard worked, because the fundamental storyline was complex and good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It was "who is chasing Rambo Crusher" who turned out to be changelings led by someone who for some reason smoked fags and was directed by Skeletor who she communicated with by cutting off her hand.

    Where were Vadic seemingly unlimited resources coming from ? Surely not the Borg in their one rotting half broken ship.

    Then it turns out it's actually the Borg with 2 episodes to go. Who convinced the changelings to infiltrate Starfleet at the highest levels to help assimilate humanity.

    Data for some unexplained reason is the security for S31's most secret research facility that for some reason they can't put a few security staff in.

    The entire fleet is at Earth and and linked up to the same "Control" system that almost destroyed the Federation in Discovery (and Prodigy and LD)

    Oh ya and they are defeated by a rebuilt kit bash only meant for a museum that for some reason has working phasers, shields and a whole bunch of torpedoes.

    And is everyone forgetting the weeks of Blade Runner planet we had to put up with and it's Vulcan criminals and shapeshifters who don't bother shape shifting to escape.

    I still don't buy the bullsht reason Beverly had for not speaking to anybody for 20 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Evade


    Presumably all Vadic's weapons and tech came from Daystrom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We know the portal gun did. We don't know about the eeevvvvviiillll bad guy ship but they could have traded that for something.

    I was more thinking the ability to put all those changelings (there were only 10 of the new scan beating types) into the highest levels of Starfleet.

    Enough to ensure that they had enough of the top brass to make frontier day happen. Enough to get all the transporters reprogrammed and replace absolutely every good contact Picard, 7 and everyone else had at the snap of a finger.

    This show really should have been 2 different movies. The changeling thing and the Borg thing. Not 8 episodes of mystery boxes.



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  • Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also there was an actual cast, not just The One (Burnham, all powerful and important)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    That episode was the most entertaining trek I’ve watched in awhile. Loved it, pure popcorn trek. I’d recommend series 3 to anybody who enjoys Sci fi



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    The size of that Borg SuperCube compared to the EntD. I'm not even mad they went full Death Star run cause it looked fantastic and the lines were great.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Evade


    In the flashback the Shrike was docked at Daystrom when the Changelings escaped.

    It was a little contrived that the ones they contacted were imposters but they were fugitives with limited options by then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The Borg themselves looked amazing. Proper horror show stuff the way they were half rotting.

    I noticed the inside of the cube also had the little pyramid things on the ceiling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Yeah that was cool. Think it was Best of Both Worlds that had them on the cube.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Head Canon has it as a captured specialist ship from the Dominion war.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Ah, I think you're going too deep, reading too much into it. For me it was just good fun and a pleasure to watch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    That's pretty much how I felt as well. The series definitely felt like they spent too much time with the Changelings when they weren't the primary villain just henchmen (hench - 'things' ?). But reuniting the original crew papered over a lot of the cracks in the story. I'd also echo the complaints about renaming the Titan - feels very disrespectful to Shaw and the history of the Titan. It would have made more sense to commission a new ship and name it "Picard" but I suspect renaming the Titan to Enterprise will allow them to reuse the same Titan sets in the "Legacy" series. The one minor niggle I had was the reveal that the Changelings kept the original officers they replaced for some unknown reason. That felt like a real cop-out to reassure people "don't worry! Tuvok's not dead!". But Admiral Shelby is presumably still dead from phaser fire.

    Mrs Greyjoy was very annoyed that there was no cameo from Janeway. When the 'after credits' scene started she was expecting an appearance from Mulgrew. But that budgetary reason you cited may have been a factor in her not appearing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,626 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I'm just holding it to the same standards all the other new shows and the JJ movies were.



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