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Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    Exactly. Replacing tails has to be the biggest cash cow going. Chop a length off from the reel in the van, undo 6 screws without getting a brain hemorrhage, six hundred please....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Exactly. It’s actually over 5 years was fine with the previous charge point in my case. 6 years now with the same circuit. No explosions so far.

    I appreciate the dangers of DIY, but logic is out the window with the regs now. Try to make an improvement and add a safety measure and you get ridden.

    By trying to everything by the book and to the regs, I have since been told that because my consumer unit is under the stairs where I have a sink, I can’t get solar. This was after spending €600 getting an earthrod and bonding done last week.

    I will now likely do DIY solar and have a friendly electrician make the grid connection. I’d have preferred to get everything done by professional installers, but so far, they’ve cost me money I didn’t have to spend. I’m well capable of doing the bonding myself, but wouldn’t make the final connection.

    Stay Free



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    While Safe Electric are indeed a joke that doesn't change the fact that installing a priority unit means that a tails upgrade isn't required. 10sq isn't sufficient for modern homes.

    My next concern would be that your home isn't neutralised. I understand your frustration but surely having a safe installation should be your number one concern, upgrading the tails, installing an earth rod and bonding water and gas pipes is about safety, It has absolutely nothing to do with grants.



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    You see that's the thing with electrics, they're fine and work away until they don't.

    10 sq is not sufficient for a house, again this has nothing to do with a grant. If you ask a registered electrician to install a shower and the house is fed by 10's then he must upgrade them, check for an earth rod and bonding. Esb must get involved as the rec cannot touch the meter. If you refuse he should then issue a notice of potential hazard, and you will be forced to upgrade. Surge protection must now be installed too. This is not an opinion, these are the regulations whether we like it or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    Maybe I missed it somewhere but he never said the feed to the house was 10 Sq. Whatever the house is being fed with obviously is heavy enough for the loads being imposed on it as the house is still here. All he wants is to change the CP to a different model and is getting fed a load of crap, it's as simple as that. Surge protection?? When did that come into it? Jaysus he'll need a lightning conductor next...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I assume you meant to say that installing a priority switch means that a that a tails upgrade is/was required. Otherwise your first sentence is self cancelling. In any case, the 10sq has been sufficient up until now. The purpose of the priority switch is to prevent too much juice being pulled from 2 high power units.

    There are 2 reasons I wanted the tails upgraded. To have a second charger installed for convenience (with load sensing for extra peace of mind) and for the planned solar installation.

    My electrics are old, but they are perfectly fine. I have had an earth rod and bonding done and plan on further improvements.

    You are wrong about the grants....it has everything to do with grants. Electricians are busy sucking up all the grant money, which makes everything more expensive. To avail of grants, the customer needs to jump through hoops unless they have a home built recently, but not too recently. I had 2 Electricians tell me they don't do tails or CU replacements because SAFE ELECTRIC have made the work not worth the hassle. Why bother moving or upgrading a CU which could take a whole day and cost as little as €350 according to leccy websites when you can do 3 EV charger installs and charge 1k for labour on each of them?

    The grants do nothing but pad the pockets of the tradesman and make it so much harder and more expensive to get them to do any other work. This is why more people will give the middle finger to the regs and will do the work themselves.

    Stay Free



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    So your argument is the house is still standing so that's proof that all's good, I can tell you that this year so far I am dealing with three homes ruined due to electrical faults. They were fine for 30 years or so until they weren't. It's incredible how dangerous an installation can be but still function.

    Surge protection was brought in under Is10101 in the last couple of years. It was always recommended but now a risk assessment must be carried out when doing restricted electrical work and basically if the cost of replacing electrical appliances is higher than the cost of installing surge protection then it must be installed. Usually costs about 100 euro to install, so it should always be installed. Arc fault detection is also now recommended.



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    Fair point there, you're saying the grants are having an indirect affect on other work.

    The issue for most contractors is dealing with the ESB is a pain. They need to visit a house to look at the job the customer wants done, they find issues like yours and then inform you that you need upgrades done. Customer is pissed because they need shell out more than they thought and the contractor then has a headache because the customer is unhappy and they then need to make multiple visits to perform the upgrades. It would be so much cheaper and easier if contractors could change the tails without getting Networks involved

    I recently had a smart meter installed and when I checked the cabinet I found that TLI (working on behalf of Esb Networks) had removed the Isolator between the old meter and and the consumer unit, meaning if my board ever needed upgrading then the work would either have to carried out with live tails, or Networks would need to kill the power. When I rang to complain I was told that I could have the isolator reinstalled, but I would need to provide a cert. Most of the older digital meters had built in isolators where the contractor could connect/disconnect, none of the smart meters have these but some have been installed with a stand alone isolator, most have not and it comes down to cost.

    I mentioned in my last reply that your house may not be neutralised, do you have an earth wire connected directly to the ESB neutral at the meter?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,262 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    In fairness showers don’t run constantly for several hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    In my house, it certainly feels that way 😂

    I reckon a good 90 minutes per day on average for the T90. I do intend to get rid of this in time in favour of a pumped shower with solar hot water.

    Stay Free



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Unless you mean the tails which has LNE, there aren't any other cables connecting. I haven't taken a proper look since the earth and bonding was done last week. Nice to know it's done.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭snor


    Im in the same boat. Teenage girls and long hair and fake tan 😬



  • Posts: 2,704 [Deleted User]


    Ya, it's the earth that's run with the main tails. Should be good so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Thanks for that.

    I set the charging rate in the car to "minimum" last night, and she charged overnight without issue. But I guess I can leave it at "maximum" now, allowing me to charge at the highest rate in work, and the home charger will automatically be reduced?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭crl84


    Have a charger install booked for next week.

    How do I know if I have an "earth rod"? Does it need to be there for the install to go ahead?

    House built in the 70s. Smart meter was installed last year by KN if that makes any difference...

    Meter and Fuseboard are in the same cabinet in the hallway.

    There's no "green boxes" outside as far as I can see....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You would need to check the perimeter of the house. It's not always a green box. It could be a galvanised lid, or other colour (black/grey often). With no earth rod, the installer may cancel the job, or go ahead, but you won't be able to get the grant unless proof of earth rod is supplied afaik. This is partly why I opted against the grant route.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Afternoon lads and lassies.

    What load would the following cable be able to handle?

    0A422208-EEAF-4441-B8CE-780417A49EE4.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Yes, as long as the plug has 16A rated written on it everything will automatically look after itself. The only issue that would ever arise there would be if someone incorrectly wired a 32A plug onto a 16A cable.

    The 3G2,5 means it's a 2.5mm2 cross sectional area cable so rated for 20A (16A in EV terms). IIRC you're after a 32A cable which would be 6mm2 with something like 3G6,0 written on it. The 32A cable is also noticeably thicker than a 16A. 👍️

    The below is a general 'signature' and not part of any post:

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    It looks like the 16A cable I have that was supplied with the car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭whydoibother


    I’ve got a Plug In Hybrid and now I need to have the charger installed.

    The garage has a deal with Energia and told me they would install the charger, which they do, but first we need to get the house up to safe electric Ireland standards. So, I tried to get in touch with at least 5 local electricians - because Energia does not have any local ones (!!!) - and we were told by the only one who replied that it will cost at least 3000 euro to bring the house up to safe electric Ireland standards. This is not what we expected!

    We are now considering cancelling Energia and going back to electric Ireland and just forget about the home charger. But, before that, we are wondering if maybe the electrician gave us a wrong amount?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    Do you know what work is needed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭whydoibother


    He needs to bring the house up to safe electric Ireland standards… whatever that means… all we want is to put the charger outside, which energia is supposed to do for free…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 808 ✭✭✭podge1979


    What is wrong with the house, how old is it. Installation I think is running mains supply to separate fuse box and a 32amp wire to the charger. I got my install as Part of PV installation and charger only took a few hours and a couple of hundred euro in addition to cost of the charger

    I'd steer clear from energy suppliers installation better to get your own charger or specific company to install.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭whydoibother


    The house was built in 1960. So the electric system here is old. When we got our car, we were told Energia would install the charger. Now energia tell me they need the house to be up to safe electric Ireland standards and they say it’s not. So we need to get a local electrician to do it and the only electrician who came back to us said it would cost 3,000 euro at least to bring the house to safe electric Ireland standards - whatever that means!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    With a phev you could get an outside socket and use the granny charger, they use 10A, not ideal from a speed point of view but will get the job done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭whydoibother



    thanks. I didn’t know they existed but I just checked online… I wonder if I could get one inside the house and then charge the car through the window… otherwise I’d be waiting another eternity for an electrician to install it outside…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    You could do that but don't use a coiled extension cable as you are passing quite a bit of current and the extension could overheat. Also keep a good eye on the socket you're plugged into and watch for signs of overheating.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,191 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Where are you based?

    Local electricians do outside double sockets here in Dublin for €75.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 530 ✭✭✭snor


    Got external sockets front and back. Have a car charger but handy as a back up and also useful for lawn mower, Christmas lights etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭whydoibother




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