Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Citizen Six · 07-04-2023 10:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452051#Comment_120452051

Come back and talk about cyclists when motorists start paying their fare share to use the roads.

Zebra3 · 08-04-2023 12:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453180#Comment_120453180

And when motorists pay their fair share for using footpaths. And green spaces. Lot of vandalism there to pay for.

Duckjob · 08-04-2023 09:25AM

Lol that’s more than I pay on my car, but carry on. You’re entertaining in a painful sort of way 😁

Thelonious Monk · 08-04-2023 10:12AM

Anyway that was a nice bit of entertainment from an actual muppet. I'm back in Dublin now and was dropping into Westwood to see about joining and couldn't help but go along the cycle path and loop back on Alfie Byrne road. It's pretty cool alright, I really hope it gets more kids cycling to my old school there but it just makes Fairview look so much nicer. It's wider than I thought it would be, no issues with that at all for me anyway.

https://streamable.com/6aqpni

Kincora2017 · 08-04-2023 10:34AM

It really does make that whole area feel and look much better. I took the kids to the playground in Fairview Park there last weekend. We walked over the overpass and I was blown away by the landing area on the park side. It’s wide, has really good materials throughout, the trees were great, nice seating..I could go on. I was just extremely impressed.

There wasn’t too many cyclists going through which obviously helped the first impression from a pedestrian point of view. I think it’s vital for the success of the overall project that the “shared spaces” elements of the project work, so thr backs of the bus shelters, this pedestrian bridge etc., and this certainly is positive

Pete_Cavan · 08-04-2023 12:22PM

I can understand people feeling put out due to the disruption caused in doing the works (most of which is due to the trunk watermain being replaced) but it takes a special kind of bitterness to not think the end result is far better than how the area was before.

Citizen Six · 08-04-2023 08:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454155#Comment_120454155

Loads of car drivers, who don’t care about the area, just their way through it.

And some disgruntled failed businessmen.

tomfoolery60 · 09-04-2023 04:07PM

With east wall road closed over Easter is the plan to have the new bit of the cycle lane leading to Alfie Byrne road finished over the two weeks? Saw some plastic removable fences there this week but was only passing quickly through

Murph_D · 09-04-2023 09:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406553#Comment_120406553

I agree with a lot of your posts but this one is below the belt. Fairview and North Strand are not kips - they are real places with real people from a diversity of social classes and ethnicities. Genuine vibrant city neighbourhoods that deserve more respect. I know a lot of people just drive or cycle or commute through and have different 'uses' for the area, but that comment annoys the hell out of me as a Fairview resident and a Dubliner.

Thelonious Monk · 09-04-2023 09:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459684#Comment_120459684

We don't have to agree but I always thought fairview was very polluted and noisy. The massive road ruins it. I lived there myself for a while and it was always a bit of a hostile environment due to traffic. I'm only really talking about the main streets.

hamburgham · 09-04-2023 10:04PM

I can’t believe how well it has been landscaped. It looks really upmarket. I honestly thought that quality of finish was reserved for the south side, has been one of my gripes over the years.

Murph_D · 09-04-2023 10:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459841#Comment_120459841

Right, but you called it a kip. Of course it has problems, and like almost every part of Dublin it has traffic and road layout problems too. The roads layout is not that unique compared to other areas. Drumcondra. Finglas. Donnybrook. Stillorgan. The list is long.

trellheim · 10-04-2023 01:02PM

I went over yesterday to take a look at the new cycle track bit on Fairview park

superficial, fixable

Both ends topped and tailed with fencing - dumps you out onto the road - fixable when it gets added onto.
No signage - fixable
Entries from Howth Road and Malahide Road very temporary with just a rough tarmac on-ramp - fixable

Personal bugbears

For a lot of it, if you miss the (narrow ) entry ramps you are trapped on the road by hedging. This seems to be a design decision ( same on the quays) to deliberately make cycle lanes inaccessible except at the first entry point (e.g. if you miss crossing to the right at Arran Quay immediately on the short cycle lights , you can't enter the cycle lane) . The above mentioned narrow entry points mean its very easy to miss the main on-ramps if you are coming off one of the side roads
Compare the above to the Chesterfield avenue on the Phoenix park where the cycle lanes are simple to enter at any point ( and dont have anyone parking in or on them).
Maybe I'm missing something but is this a two-way track ? If so what's the plan for northbound cyclists to Malahide Road/Howth Road as it doesn't seem to be set up for them at all , no place to congregate and quite narrow ( scratch that I've looked at the plans its one-way, can't help but feel theyre missing a trick here in the sense that yes I can see the northbound lane far away on the other side of the road, but keeping all/most of the cyclists on the parkside would seem better to me )

Citizen Six · 10-04-2023 08:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459684#Comment_120459684

I would have interpreted that as a slight against infrastructure in the area, and not the people. I think it's about time the area had an improvement, as the people deserve it.

Murph_D · 10-04-2023 11:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461318#Comment_120461318

It's a one-way track on each side of the road, as you twigged. That's the way the design evolved through the consultation process etc (although I'm not sure a two-way was ever really entertained). One way each side seems more practical for an inner-suburb to city centre track all the same, with the amount of people joining from each side at each junction? Maybe I'm wrong.

Pawwed Rig · 11-04-2023 06:45AM

If it was a point to point track from (say) Raheny to city centre then a 2 way track on one side would be the way to go. I think the actual design serves better the cyclists in the local areas and places like Croke Park/Tolka Park and anyone who needs to go up to those areas

Shedite27 · 11-04-2023 09:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461318#Comment_120461318

A 2 way track would be tricky for those coming outbound, at some point cyclists would have to cross the road outbound to get to the cycle track, and again when the cycle path ends.

Thelonious Monk · 11-04-2023 09:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462620#Comment_120462620

Exactly, noisy and polluted, like really bad. If anywhere was in need of a face-lift it was Fairview and North Strand.

bk · 11-04-2023 11:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463871#Comment_120463871

Folks going outbound will have to cross the road anyway to get to the two way cycle track at Clontarf. The existing cycle path from Clontarf to Howth is two way, so logically it would have made sense to continue it two way all the way into the city.

A two way cycle path gives you far more space to overtake and space for cargo bikes, etc. The only issue I could see is potentially there isn't enough space under the rail bridge outside Clontarf Dart station for a two way cycle path.

I notice cyclists are already ignoring it and are cycling outbound on the footpath in Fairview park and I've even noticed some cycling the wrong way on the new inbound cycle path along Fairview park. Also even more people walking on the new cycle path!

Also at the corner of Clontarf Road and Alfie Byrne road, I've noticed cyclists cycle too and from Clontarf Road/Alfie Byrne Road, cyclists are largely ignoring the new cycle path and are instead cycling on the footpath as it is more direct between the two roads. A clear failure of planning for an obvious desire path IMO.

lucernarian · 11-04-2023 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464273#Comment_120464273

I think the movement of bikes while only one section of one side of the cycle tracks has been opened is not much of an indicator of anything. Seems premature to comment on the start of a stretch that is mostly a construction site.

As for the design, the footpath below the clontarf railway bridge is being narrowed with the construction of one lane as it is - and particularly at Fairview park, it's good to have a cycle lane where it's actually needed (where the residential streets, schools, businesses and shops all are) combined with regular crossing points for the leg of the journey taken on the park side.

Replacing a bus stop with vehicle parking in a very densely populated stretch of the scheme is the real lunacy in this design IMO.

bk · 11-04-2023 04:07PM

"I think the movement of bikes while only one section of one side of the cycle tracks has been opened is not much of an indicator of anything. Seems premature to comment on the start of a stretch that is mostly a construction site."

I agree with that in a general sense, we will have to wait and see once it is complete. Though I definitely expect that we will continue to see some people cycle outbound through fairview park on the footpath. Frankly it just feels much safer and more pleasant then cycling on the northern side of the road, which is much busier and closer to cars, buses, people parking outside of shops, etc.

BTW keep in mind there is actually a cycle path already going through the center of Fariview Park and most cyclists already use it in both directions between Annesley Bridge and Westwood.

Also the issue at the corner of Alfie Byrne Road and Clontarf is on a finished and open part of the bike path, so that is clearly a problem regardless. I don't think it is a big one, it isn't a particularly busy location, I suspect most people will just treat it as a shared space, but it does seem poorly thought out design.

Citizen Six · 11-04-2023 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465521#Comment_120465521

The path through the park isn't that easy to cross over to, when travelling outbound. I only cross over to it if there’s no vehicles travelling either direction, as I cross Annesley bridge.

The section at the end of the Alfie Byrne road shouldn’t be treated as a shared space though. Pedestrians won’t be happy with cyclists on a footpath, when there’s a new cycle lane built for them beside it. And they’d be right. How lazy can cyclists be? Even though the line should be on the desired path, as you mentioned. Some people are afraid of cyclists, even on a shared path. I got attacked by a lady a couple of months back going through the park, and I always reduce my speed when there’s people about too.

bk · 11-04-2023 05:24PM

"The section at the end of the Alfie Byrne road shouldn’t be treated as a shared space though. Pedestrians won’t be happy with cyclists on a footpath, when there’s a new cycle lane built for them beside it. And they’d be right. How lazy can cyclists be? Even though the line should be on the desired path, as you mentioned. Some people are afraid of cyclists, even on a shared path. I got attacked by a lady a couple of months back going through the park, and I always reduce my speed when there’s people about too."

That is the problem though, the Cycle path isn't next to the footpath. Actually looking at the plans, that whole section is terribly designed. It doesn't make any sense at all.

First of all, most people won't actually use that footpath, as there is already an existing faster footpath connecting Clontarf Road and Alfie Byrne Road right in front of the sea. So this half way footpath seems unnecessary. It then has two separate footpath arms that seem very unnecessary and very confusing. AS a pedestrian (which I am) the whole thing and which path I should take is very confusing.

Also BTW there are actually 4 sections which are officially shared paths as the footpath and cycle path overlap at those points.

I think a better design would have been to do what you are suggesting and actually put a cycle path right next to the curved footpath and then have both a footpath and cycle path arm go up to the traffic lights, where it would be a shared space like it is.

This is what it currently looks like:

I think if they did it like this, it would have been much more understandable and straight forward, with less weird crossings.

Sorry, hopefully the scrabbles are understandable.

Or alternatively, remove the inner footpath completely, have it be the cycle lane instead and make where the cycle lane is a footpath.

Shedite27 · 11-04-2023 05:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464273#Comment_120464273

Traffic going from Amiens Street to Clontarf seafront are probably better off taking the right on the Tolka and head out out Alfie Byrne Road, avoiding the congestion and traffic lights in Fairview anyway.

The cyclists going through Fairview are probably the ones turning up the Malahide or Howth Road, no point in them crossing and crossing back

Citizen Six · 11-04-2023 07:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120465864#Comment_120465864

There's no right turn at Annesley bridge, so you'd have to move to the left and line up with the traffic coming from Poplar Row. I don't like dealing with that increase in journey time myself. Most of the time.

11-04-2023 07:13PM

wrong thread

Shedite27 · 12-04-2023 09:37AM

slightly off topic but any idea why the nee cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue is red on one side and white on the other side of the road? It it just aesthetics or is there some difference between when they’re cycle lanes or something?

bk · 12-04-2023 10:12AM

"slightly off topic but any idea why the nee cycle lanes on Griffith Avenue is red on one side and white on the other side of the road? It it just aesthetics or is there some difference between when they’re cycle lanes or something?"

I noticed that this week myself and took a similar picture of it too!

I've no idea why they have done this, other then DCC seem to be incompetent and the implementation of the bike lane on Griffith Avenue has been a complete mess.

I guess it might be temporary, just whatever the staff had in their van. This section of the bike path near the schools was rushed into place a few weeks ago after complaints about the dangers of parking around the schools made it into the newspapers. The DCC staff arrived fast a day or two after the newspaper articles and built this part of the cycle lane in a few days, which was supposed to have be done 3 years ago!

I could be wrong, but I believe it is supposed to be temporary works and that the bike path will be completed near the end of the year, with the concrete curbs, etc. Maybe they will fix the different colours too.

BTW I think they have used the white/yellow colour on the other end of Griffith Avenue, which is finished, so I guess that is supposed to be the colour, rather then red. Though now that I think about it, red would probably match the aesthetics of the surrounding red brick houses.

If you want an official answer, might be best to reach out to DCC, 012222222 or citycentreprojects@dublincity.ie according to the DCC site.