Eddi issues

Hellrazer · 04-04-2023 10:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120441462#Comment_120441462

Settings-priority-check period I think.

silver_sky · 05-04-2023 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273294#Comment_120273294

Have the plumber looking into the pump setup now and he said it would need a specific brass pump which is costly. It may be cheaper to replace the single top immersion tank with a dual side immersion tank. Waiting to hear back with quotes.

micks_address · 06-04-2023 09:22AM

i got a quote from our plumber for a 120 litre steel insulated tank fitted with immersion for 800 euro. I don't need to do this yet. I'm thinking it would be a lot more efficient. Our copper cylinder is a double indirect cylinder as there used to be a back boiler in the house but thats long gone. So there's an empty coil in the cylinder. I'm not convinced the gas heating is heating it efficiently either. I had the heating on for an hour this morning (hot water only) and the water was only luke warm from the gas.. it gets scalding hot from the immersion/eddi.. (well 55c) i think an hour should be more than enough from the gas to heat the cylinder but maybe im wrong

bullit_dodger · 06-04-2023 11:20AM

It's a bit anecdotal as different heating systems will have different profiles, but the hot water mode from my gas boiler takes a good 2 hrs to get up to temp. Sometimes 3 if the tank is cold as opposed to luke warm. Course it's not actually burning natural gas for the 2 hrs, the pump is on but the burner only kicks in when the temp of the return water falls low enough. The problem with those heat exchangers is that the a coil inside the cyclinder only contains water which might be 55C-60C from the boiler and with the surface area it has, it's hard to drag the full tank up to temp. Takes ages.

Think 2-3 hrs wouldn't be too uncommon mick (for central heating to heat the water)

micks_address · 06-04-2023 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447189#Comment_120447189

thats interesting.. i was chatting my plumber this morning about something else and he reckoned an hour should heat it. Ill do some testing over the next week or so and see how i get on.. i did order one of those govee temp sensors so ill bang it on the side.. ill be able to see what an hour of gas on is doing.. i might need to check the stat on the cylinder in case. i knocked it out adding the second lagging jacket..

DC999 · 06-04-2023 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447215#Comment_120447215

Fire the numbers in here so give a rough sense. Water Heating Calculator for Time, Energy, and Power (bloglocation.com)

Adding 50c to a 120L tank uses 7kWh. So something like a 1.5kW from an Eddi would take 4.5 hours. Ignores heat losses, water being used...And a gas boiler isn't 100% converting electricity to heat, immersions are much closer to that.

IMO, it's not worth replacing a tank with one the same size (small 120L) that only has better insulation. See if heat loss is your main issue first (unlikley I reckon with 2 lagging jackets). Heating water takes a lotttttt of energy

micks_address · 06-04-2023 11:45AM

would a new cylinder have a better heat exchanger and heat up quicker?

bullit_dodger · 06-04-2023 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447215#Comment_120447215

Are you sure the valve from the central heating into the tank is open, or open fully? Might be worthwhile to close it, turn on the heating and ensure that the hot water -isn't- going into the coil down at the bottom of the tank, and then open the valve and put your hand on the pipe to feel the hot water flowing. Of course, to do the McDonal's coffee warning....."contents may be hot!" :-)

I'd be with DC999 above, I wouldn't replace the tank to go for another one. If you replace it, I'd go for a 200L steel tank insulated jobbie.

micks_address · 06-04-2023 11:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447305#Comment_120447305

i think think they are automatic zone valves?

Hellrazer · 06-04-2023 12:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447189#Comment_120447189

Mine takes about 2-3 hours on gas aswell. You can adjust the flow to the cylinder coil to heat quicker. There should be a tap on the side where the coil is located. Lock it in all the way and then turn it out half a turn (mark it with a marker)

Try it for a few days and if its still too slow to heat , turn it another half turn and so on. Its a really fine balancing act to get right. Bear in mind that heating the coil quicker will take heat from the rads so you need to go slowly. I got a new boiler a couple of years ago and water would not heat with the gas at all -the installer had locked the coil valve closed. When I rang him he gave me those instructions - mine is roughly one and a quarter turns from closed to keep it balanced with the rads but everyones setup is different.

bullit_dodger · 06-04-2023 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447315#Comment_120447315

Could be. Each system dependent on how the plumber set it up. Usually though there's an isolator valve maybe 12 inches away from the bottom of the immersion tank which you can "balance" the water flow as mentions above. It could be that the flow rate is too low on your which Hellrazer explained better than I did previously.

Have a look at your tank at the bottom and follow the pipe at the bottom to that valve (they're are probably two pipes, one brining cold water from the attic tank and the other hot water from the boiler) Should be easy enough to tell which is which when the hot water has been on for 5-10 mins.

Aside: I've noted with the 3x Govee meters that the tank doesn't get "stratefied" as much on hot water from the central heating as it does from the immersion. With the immersion the top of the tank is 60C and the bottom is like 44-45C. With the heat exchanger it's much more uniform.

micks_address · 06-04-2023 01:34PM

just had a feel of my hot water tank there.. even with max temp reached on eddi only the top 3rd of the tank is warm.. the bottom half is cold to touch.. so maybe the eddi is wired to the sink instead of bath immersion?

also my eddi installer said they were wiring it to the 'bath' on the immersion... my immersion has a switch for bath + sink. and another for on. should i leave both switches on all the time?

micks_address · 06-04-2023 02:00PM

when i switch from bath to sink it kills the eddi power.. so i guess both switches need to be on..

graememk · 06-04-2023 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447683#Comment_120447683

The bath and sink, in a twin immersion the bath usually is 3kw and the sink is about 2.

Although looks like yours is wired after the switch, so you have no choice!.

Immersion could just be a short one.

Also re heating water from heating system, most older systems are quite poorly controlled, just a on/off without any sort of zoning. You want hot water, well rads get heat too.

Slightly newer ones have a hot water zone thankfully, so you can heat hot water only.

Even newer ones have a hot water priority, and when there is demand for hot water, it only heats hot water until it's satisfied and then changes back to rads.

With condensing boilers that's quite good, it gets your hot water done quickly and then it can run at a lower temperature for the rads

micks_address · 06-04-2023 02:24PM

when i turn on the gas to heat water only after a few minutes the feed to and from the cylinder are piping hot so that seems ok..

silver_sky · 06-04-2023 06:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447842#Comment_120447842

Like a physical on the wall switch? if so you shouldn't have that any more. Both should be wired direct to the Eddi and it can handle switching between the bath and sink elements.

micks_address · 06-04-2023 09:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448977#Comment_120448977

Yep physical wall switch.. he said he would only wire the bath element as wiring both in a small tank can cause them to cancel each other out..

bullit_dodger · 06-04-2023 10:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449638#Comment_120449638

That sounds a bit dubious to me - as in the elements are specifically designed that way. I think a couple of piccies would help people mick.

I sort of can guess how he's wired it. what your saying is that it's something like.....

So the EDDI doesn't have power unless those switches are set right. It's not wrong wiring it that way, but in fact the switches (if I understand it correctly) are redundant as they do nothing other than turn on/off the eddi. There's no sink/bath functionality anymore as the EDDI now controls that.

micks_address · 06-04-2023 11:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120449937#Comment_120449937

Away but I think it's eddii from wall switch back to wall switch then switch to tank.. I'm leaning more towards a replacement anyway.. only tank 1 is wired on eddii. Nothing to tank 2..

graememk · 07-04-2023 12:21AM

If it's a twin immersion, ie a shared stat, the innstaller is right, if you heat the sink element to temp, it will also cut out the bath element.

The second tank/immersion is only useful for completely separate immersions

bullit_dodger · 07-04-2023 12:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450177#Comment_120450177

Ahm, yes....and no :-)

The same issue is present if you remove the EDDI from the equation. If you have a sink/bath element in a normal immersion tank (no eddi or solar) and turn on sink and heat it to temp eventually it will hit the thermostat cut off. If you then switch it to bath, it won't work as it's been cut out by the hot water at the top of the tank, and it will only kick in and work once it's dropped a few degrees. That makes sense.

However you may actually want to get a smaller amount of hot water (sink) over a larger amount of lukewarm water as you know you won't get the full tank hot, so the spark should have wired both. You can then simply control the priority in the Eddi.

I think your issues are solvable Mick though, possibly without needing to change the tank. You may ultimately want to do that anyway, but you'll have a better handle on things once you get the Govee temp monitor.

micks_address · 07-04-2023 10:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450217#Comment_120450217

Got the temp sensor yesterday. I'm away this weekend so can't check much more out. What I did notice yesterday was that the eddii was reporting max temp reached and only the top half of the cylinder was hot to touch. I'm sure if I put on the gas for two hours some day next week it will heat the whole tank. The feeds in and out of the cylinder get hot to touch with the gas heating the hot water circuit.. ideally I'd like a full tank of water. Maybe I can achieve that with the gas and allow the Eddi to heat the top of the tank during the day. I would like the immersion to heat the whole tank but it doesn't seem possible at the moment.. again back to costs it may be better to use the gas anyway to heat the water

bullit_dodger · 07-04-2023 11:40AM

It sounds like the Eddi might be wired physically into the "Sink" element only instead of "Bath", or perhaps the priority is wrong. Have you tried changing (in the Eddi menu) the Priority of the elements?

eddi configuration | myenergi UK

My one was wired backwards. "Element 2" (bath) is actually the sink at the top of the tank, and then the sink is the vice versa. So I have mine set to "Sink" but it actually heats the full tank. Also, you mentioned that he only wired one (both of mine are wired), so it's possible that he wired the wrong element.

Do think you can get that fixed without replacing the tank though.

Hellrazer · 07-04-2023 01:58PM

Can you take the cap off and see how its wired?

My dual immersion only has the longer element (bath) wired. Should be easy enough for us to help you fix it if we had a few pictures.

micks_address · 07-04-2023 02:10PM

I had the cap off to change the immersion temp. Can't find the picture with it off but this is it on

micks_address · 07-04-2023 02:12PM

Knew I had the picture somewhere

graememk · 07-04-2023 02:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451573#Comment_120451573

If it draws 3kw on boost, it's on the bath immersion

micks_address · 07-04-2023 02:16PM

That's the eddi profile for march. It never went much above 1.5kw. I'll try boost when I'm back home next week..I've set a device limit of 1.5kw since earlier in the week.

micks_address · 07-04-2023 02:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447955#Comment_120447955

When getting the gas boiler upgraded we separated the rads and water heating circuit so can have hot water only..had to run two more pipes to the cylinder from the boiler but worth it

Hellrazer · 07-04-2023 03:07PM

With a dual immersion system there should be 4 wires I thought???

Yours only has 3 which to me means only one element is wired possibly only the sink one.

Id swap the brown wire to the upper right connection assuming its marked "L" - cant see any markings on the picture.

Looks like the neutral is connected to the 2 other terminals of the elements and the live is only going to the bottom one. From memory if you have 4 wires the sink / bath switch changes between the elements.

Its quite possible that its only connected to the sink one.

I cant find a wiring diagram for that immersion anywhere - Its probably as old as the one that came out of my tank.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/immersion-wiring.124106/

Thread here explains it. In a dual immersion with 4 wires the second black wire is connected to the other element. The picture here shows it more clearly.

immersion 4 wire.png

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Eddi issues

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