Cork - BusConnects

It's true. The signs being nailed to the tree is the pièce de résistance.

Heaven help us the karens will be chaining themselves to the right turn lanes. A new level of entitlement.

It's a complete capitulation to NIMBYs, vested interests and the generally ignorant populace of the city bat large. Might as well cancel the entire project and leave things as it is at this point because the new plans will deliver NO improvement at all. NTA should have just gone in and forced the original plans through the courts!

I don't know Cork, but certainly reads as a massive watering down.

People worried about losing some of their garden and the impact on property value, with no regard for the property value increase due to improves public transport. They'd also get compensated for the garden loss.... talk about win win win.

Overall, surely it's still an improvement that can be built on in medium term?...

A capitulation to nimbys and local political interests. Waste of time as these new plans won't improve the bus experience, so best to scrap it altogether to be honest.

"However it is no longer proposed to introduce a bus gate and the number of on street car parking spaces has been increased to retain more existing spaces than previously proposed" (Page 16 of the Ballincollig Document)

I think this sentance alone sums it all up for me, bus gate removed and more car parking spaces! I mean, if there is anything at all in the world that the town of Ballincollig needs, it is not car parking, the place is overflowing with spaces.

I think many of us, including myself, had hoped that TII would get this done with as little influence from the city council and the naysayers as possible but unfortunately that has not happened.

If the NTA should have learnedanything from the BusConnects Dublin experience, it's that the infrastructure improvements should be done in a localised way using Part 8. These big city-wide plans only poke every bear of a NIMBY across the whole city and galvanise people against the plan.

BusConnects should be a network redesign and the common branding, standard bus stops, etc. The road layout changes can be more easily done under Part 8. Start off by picking some low hanging fruit of pinchpoints where benefits can be realised but also relatively uncontroversial. Those works could be done much quicker that way than jumping through all the hoops a mega project like BusConnects entails. I'd be confident more works would be done by 2030 using this route rather than going through the slog that is BusConnects (where clearly nothing of note will be done by 2030).

I think it's fair to say that the original Cork Bus Connect plan has been scrapped because what is remaining is a few route changes and some minor adjustments.

This was supposed to be a major improvement for public transport in the city, with more frequent and reliable buses, dedicated lanes, and better connections. But thanks to a vocal minority of nimbies (not in my backyard), who opposed any changes to their precious roads and parking spaces, the plan has been shelved.

This is a huge setback for Cork and its residents, who deserve better options for getting around. It appears to me that the nimbies have shown once again that they have more influence than the wider public, who would benefit from a more sustainable and efficient transport system. In my opinion they have ignored the facts and the evidence, and instead focused on their own selfish interests.

They have ruined the proposed Cork Bus Connect plan, and they have done a disservice to the city and its future. They have put their own convenience over the common good, and they have stifled progress and innovation. They have shown that they don't care about the environment, the economy, or the quality of life of their fellow citizens.

I'm not surprised, yet still disappointed. We need to stand up to the nimbies and demand better transport solutions for Cork. We need to make our voices heard and show that we care about our city and its future. We need to support the Cork Bus Connect plan and make it happen.

I usually am not one for going and providing feedback about public policy, but enough is enough, this caving to single issue people (don't take my right turn), not in my backyard pressure must stop, we need efficient public transport that connects people, workplaces and shops to survive.

Cork is the second-largest city in Ireland and a major economic and cultural hub. However, its public transport system is inadequate and unreliable, causing congestion, pollution and frustration for residents and visitors alike.

An efficient public transport system would reduce traffic and improve air quality in Cork. According to a recent study by the European Environment Agency, Cork has the worst air quality in Ireland and ranks among the worst in Europe. The main source of air pollution in Cork is road transport, which emits harmful particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide. By providing more frequent, reliable and affordable public transport options more people would be encouraged to leave their cars at home and use public transport instead. This would ease the pressure on the roads and lower the emissions of greenhouse gases and pollutants.

An efficient public transport system would also boost the economy and tourism of Cork. Cork has a vibrant and diverse economy, with sectors such as pharmaceuticals, technology, education and food. However, the lack of public transport infrastructure hinders the growth and development of these sectors, as it makes it harder for workers, students and customers to access them. By improving the connectivity and accessibility of public transport, more businesses would be attracted to invest in Cork, creating more jobs and opportunities for the local population. Moreover, an efficient public transport system would enhance the attractiveness of Cork as a tourist destination, as it would make it easier for visitors to explore the city and its surroundings.

An efficient public transport system would also improve the quality of life and social inclusion of Cork's residents. Cork is a diverse and multicultural city, with people from different backgrounds, cultures and abilities. However, the current public transport system does not cater to the needs and preferences of all these groups, as it is often inaccessible, delayed or requires multiple changes to reach a desitination.

By designing a public transport system that is inclusive, accessible and affordable for everyone, more people would be able to participate in the social and cultural life of the city, reducing isolation and fostering community cohesion.

In conclusion, an efficient public transport system is needed for Cork, Ireland, as it would bring multiple benefits to the city and its people. It would reduce traffic and improve air quality, boost the economy and tourism, and improve the quality of life and social inclusion of Cork's residents.

Therefore, I urge you to participate in feedback to the authorities and stakeholders, so that they take action and invest in a better public transport system for Cork.

It depends on the public reaction.

The draft Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy was incredibly conservation and underwhelming and got panned. The revised one is a much one ambitious proposal.

If people don't complain about the current proposal then the NTA won't be too inclined to change it

Maybe, just maybe not everyone WANTS to be reliant on public transport?

I know, it's like heresy to say such things in a niche forum like this, but why do you think that people are wary of it?

Could it be decades of slow, inefficient, unreliable (and on some routes, unsafe) experiences with these services despite lots of new liveries and rebrands - CitySwift, SUPER CitySwift, Xpresso, CIE, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann... It really doesn't matter. It's still the same thing being operated by the same people. Sure there may be some inconsistent improvements but it's still the option for those with no better alternative. Slow, rambling, stopping every 30-60 seconds, jammed at peak hours, missing services, antisocial minority torturing others - even if it's just with bad music, drivers AWOL or staff shortages nowadays etc.

I'm in Cork a fair bit, and the city itself is really only a handful of main streets that are all within walking distance of a few minutes. It's no Dublin no matter how much they might want to see it as the southern equivalent. They have extended it in the last year by simply absorbing some of the surrounding suburban towns, but about the only thing I would say is needed in the actual city centre area is an expansion of the very good Park and Ride service. I use it quite a bit and it's something that should be replicated at every major junction on the M50 in my view, but a good start would be to have it operate on Sundays (which it does at Christmas time). It's ridiculous that it doesn't to be honest but when even the local bus company and council don't see the benefit of a simple change like that (it's just adding more duties to the roster) then it's hard to support a hugely disruptive notion with questionable cost/benefit returns instead.

See the problem with the above is that even with the proposed improvements, the trip is still almost double the car journey. Bus fares aren't cheap either and unless you are going to get rid of the car entirely, your public transport use is just added cost and lost time for what..?

The environment? Please! I know Eamon Ryan and his bunch of numpties would have us believe that the survival of the planet depends on what we in Ireland do, but in reality we are an insignificant fraction of an issue far more affected by the likes of Russia, the US, India and others than anything a small island of 5 million people do.

You also highlight another long standing problem, even where there are priority routes or measures - simple A to B trips may be worthwhile, but any deviation and it becomes a mess of lost time, missing connections and frustration.

And by the way.. I write all this as someone who put up with all of the above on Dublin Bus for 30 years, so this isn't just me being anti public transport. The problem is that it only suits a minority in Ireland and that's why it just doesn't and will likely never work well enough to be a genuinely attractive alternative, which is essential if it's to succeed.

Today I learned: Public transport in Ireland is poor, so we shouldn't improve it.

So much of the posts by _ Kaiser _ have been factually incorrect, that I suspect you're wasting your time replying.

To break down all their ridiculous points and rebut almost every single sentence:

1. The city itself is really only a handful of main streets that are all within walking distance of a few minutes (Douglas to CUH is a common commute, it's over 6km and already has a 24hour bus service. This point is demonstrably false)
2. They have extended it in the last year by simply absorbing some of the suburban towns (the 2019 city boundary extension largely absorbed areas that were already city in all but name.)
3. The only thing I would say is needed in the actual city centre area is an expansion of the very good P&R service (what about the East? Should bus P&R compete with rail? Did you just not realise that we have rail? We need integrated ticketing between both. P&R carries only fraction of the passengers that the city bus or rail services do and it's a point-to-point link between city centre and outskirts: what about CUH? UCC? CIT? Mahon? The P&R is good...but it can cater for a portion of end-users only: car users, who are - according to every study - difficult to entice out of vehicles once they sit in. In short, P&R is demonstrably a benefit to a very small number of people who need public transport, and is unlikely to be the core part of any city transport system)
4. Have the P&R operate on Sundays (P&R is heavily subsidised by city council and operates at a loss in an effort to alleviate commuter traffic. The scope could be expanded but you could also just park in any of the locations serviced by the normal high-frequency bus, given that parking is free on Sundays and ridership is low)
5. When even the local bus company and council don't see the benefit of a simple change like that etc etc (who says they don't see the benefit? This is also an effort at direct comparison between NTA BusConnects CapEx with City Council OpEx which somehow also includes the bus company and simply makes no sense at all)
6. Even with the proposed improvements, the trip is still almost double the car journey. (This is only relevant for car owners. Many people don't, and don't want to own a car, particularly in the city. Many future residents of the city will be tech workers who will come from abroad and will not want to go through the effort of getting an Irish car and licence. I know many of these already)
7. Bus fares aren't cheap either and unless you are going to get rid of the car entirely, your public transport use is just added cost and lost time (Many are currently being forced into car ownership against their will by our current system. See point 6 above. They would prefer to not sink money into cars)
8. A clichéd argument rebutting environmental issues, bemoaning the green party, claiming what we do being inconsequential etc (this simply belongs in another forum)
9. Another long standing problem, even where there are priority routes or measures - simple A to B trips may be worthwhile, but any deviation and it becomes a mess of lost time, missing connections and frustration. (Anyone who has read the BusConnects information or engaged in the process to-date would not have raised this point, as it undermines any argument against BusConnects)
10. [I] put up with all of the above on Dublin Bus for 30 years, so this isn't just me being anti public transport (Cork isn't Dublin. Cork has a fraction of the public transport that Dublin has. Even without BusConnects, Cork will still need significant investment)
11. The problem is that it only suits a minority in Ireland and that's why it just doesn't and will likely never work well enough to be a genuinely attractive alternative, which is essential if it's to succeed. (this doesn't state WHICH people it doesn't suit, or WHY it doesn't suit them. Even if this statement were true, it's quite possible that BusConnects proposals would suit these people. It's just a vague statement with nothing to back it up)

So yeah....I've wasted my time replying to all that uninformed rubbish so that nobody else needs to.

Kaiser, I suggest having a read of the BusConnects background documentation around multi-trip journeys, scheduling etc. You might find it interesting.

As well as watering down of the bus corridors in BusConnects 2.0, some ped/cycling provisions have also been quietly dropped.

The bottom of the Well Road is quite dangerous for peds and cyclists thanks to a very narrow footpath on one side, and a high stone wall on the other. See screenshot below.

BusConnects 1.0 proposed to connect two adjacent culs-de-sac to form a completely separate parallel route for peds and cyclists. Unfortunately, local councillor Terry Shannon (FF) lives just off the Well Road. He sent out leaflets which essentially orchestrated a huge NIMBY response from people in these culs-de-sac. It was real scare mongering stuff about how a ped/cycling right-of-way would lead to anti-social behaviour. Seems to have worked. Sad really.