Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

moon2 · 24-03-2023 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395737#Comment_120395737

Can you, in reasonable detail, tell me what it is?

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 01:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395831#Comment_120395831

I think it’s fairly clear it has to do with the constitutional issue and some sort of legal guarantee.

Choochtown · 24-03-2023 01:49PM

Here's Donaldson before SF got the 1st Minister position.

"Customs checks doesn't mean that you change the constitutional status of a part of the United Kingdom"

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1234980955825176576?lang=en

Grassey · 24-03-2023 02:01PM

A solution that extreme nationalists would hate, and the EU would block but everyone else will love...

So it's back to repackaging a border in Ireland backed by amazing technology solutions, so amazing we can't even describe them?

rock22 · 24-03-2023 06:19PM

Whatever you great idwea is Downcow, it is a solution that is patently too late

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/24/rishi-sunak-brexit-deal-northern-ireland-formally-signed-off-eu

downcow · 24-03-2023 07:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395896#Comment_120395896

Absolutely nothing to do with either. This is about the financial well-being of everyone in ni. I believe the unionist community is tired of this dup shambles and if we can get the right bonus then I think most (not all) can be convinced that the bigger picture is more important.

breezy1985 · 24-03-2023 07:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397399#Comment_120397399

The financial well being of NI is best served by the deal. Everyone says so including NI business group and your Prime Minister.

No this is about the DUP and it's supporters throwing a hissy fit.

downcow · 24-03-2023 07:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395881#Comment_120395881

It’s not whataboutery it’s integrity. I am not going to jump up and down about you pointing out that we all in Northern Ireland have a legacy and a problem with varying levels of religious bigotry. What I have a problem with is you singling out Donaldson for that tag. Anyone from my generation growing up in Northern Ireland who doesn’t think they need to work on their religious bigotry and prejudice daily is unfortunately a huge part of the problem. You could not grow up in ni (or probably roi) and not have shortcomings around prejudice and bigotry

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 08:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397399#Comment_120397399

A bung from the EU this time?

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 08:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397419#Comment_120397419

DUP and it's supporters really need to find a way to compromise earlier in these things or they will just keep on losing.

Contrast with SF who compromised after a year only to be gazumphed by the no compromise LCC. Who won out in the end though?

Bryson is flat out jumping up and down on Twitter, lundying everyone in sight and talking No Surrender when he would be better off staying quiet and trying to find a way to move on with everyone else.

downcow · 24-03-2023 08:45PM

Now guys don’t hype this up into something that I didn’t say and then come back afterwards with a gotcha.

In a nutshell I am saying:

I was enthused by this suggestion

i think it would be great for ni if it can happen

it does not bring the negotiations to where we would like them. FM is a big step forward from the protocol that most said couldn’t be improved and required rigorous implementation.

rather it takes the pain away of the FM shortcomings.

it doesn’t deal with any of those shortcomings - we will need to also accept the FM and not make perfection the enemy of good.

I have no idea if it will be a goer and it will not transform the world.

let’s see if it plays out over the weeks ahead

those eight letters I think could be good for OWC and all the people who want OWC to flourish

republicanism has a real skill at knowing when they can get no more and can spin defeat or a draw into victory. Unionism has the knack of snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Eg republicanism managed to spin gfa and self determination for the people of OWC into victory. They spun the cultural & Irish language stuff into a victory but none of us notice any difference etc. unionism needs to get better at this.

downcow · 24-03-2023 08:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397604#Comment_120397604

Great point francie. That sums up what I was saying in very next post. Sf spin a win to their supporters even when it is a clear defeat, and their supporters accept it. I doubt unionists are from Mars and republicans are from Venus

breezy1985 · 24-03-2023 08:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397655#Comment_120397655

Tell us what it is then. Honestly if you don't it's about time we just started reporting your posts for trolling.

The politics forum does require an honest level of debate with some level of proof.

Grassey · 24-03-2023 09:40PM

"those eight letters I think could be good for OWC and all the people who want OWC to flourish"

RejoinEU???

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 09:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120397681#Comment_120397681

The GFA has defeated Unionism’s attempts to enforce a veto several times now.

There was no spin. It was the final ‘nail’ in the coffin of the Unionist state.

Try as you might you have not been able to destroy it.

downcow · 25-03-2023 10:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398019#Comment_120398019

Very timely this morning, following your above post, more of the truth comes out. Talk about being thrown under a bus. Seems Martin and Gerry believed a spy actually operating with no authority. Seems he pushed it over the line with complete made up story that the boys took, hook line a sinker. 25 years later and the stated position of Uk government, PM and potential Labour PM is that they support the union - just a different union than Martin believed (or did Martin know more than his foot soldiers think and was ‘fred’ one of his mates?). And I think most can agree that a ui is not one iota closer today than when Gerry Kelly thought fred was going to organise it.

“”

During the meeting, Martin McGuinness asked what the intentions of the 'Brits' were, believing that Robert was speaking as he had presented himself - "the British Government Representative".

Robert said that the goal was ultimately to unify Ireland.

His exact words were noted down in minutes written by Gerry Kelly:

Speaking to Taylor in February, Gerry Kelly described the meeting as a "seminal moment".

"We were told he was a British government representative. We just took him at his word - that's what he was there for, he would represent the British government and therefore we were talking to the British government," says Mr Kelly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65038587

We should get together and organise a support group for those who have been fleeced by the British, Irish and EU governments. We have a lot in common.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2023 10:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399083#Comment_120399083

'seems' doing a lot of work in that post. We have had these stories from people selling stuff for years. But stop deflecting from the statement in my post.

Has the GFA frustrated every single attempt from belligerent Unionists (who never supported it) to return the place to the sectarian bigoted statlet it was?

Has it also frustrated those in the British establishment trying to use this island for their own selfish aims?

Choochtown · 25-03-2023 01:23PM

When I first posted that Donaldson was a bigot you replied that that was a "pretty nasty remark".

Now you agree with me but tell me I shouldn't be singling him out.

Why not? We're discussing DUP policy or lack thereof. I think he's the very person that it's relevant to single out.

A man who went to Downing street to lead an anti-Catholic march who then told us of the great advantages of the access to 2 markets and who then changes his mind when faced with a Catholic 1st minister.

Doesn't take a genius to work out what's going on.

downcow · 25-03-2023 09:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399528#Comment_120399528

“When I first posted that Donaldson was a bigot you replied that that was a "pretty nasty remark".

Now you agree with me but tell me I shouldn't be singling him out.”

sure if that’s how you interpret my post, fair enough. Might say a little more about your prejudice than Jeffrey’s. I don’t know Jeffrey personally, but I know several of his immediate family. They have suffered great loss and jeffry has served his community in uniform. I am a fair distance from him politically but I do think your remarks about him are pretty nasty.

FrancieBrady · 26-03-2023 09:22AM

It's really hard to figure out what the DUP thought they would achieve in the States. They'd have been better off just staying away. They will probably organise protests when Biden comes here to be broadcast around the world further backing themselves into the cul de sac.

Saying no, backing yourself into a corner and relying on others to save you from your own failures, only works if the other participants all agree that you are an essential player in game.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-dup/

Choochtown · 26-03-2023 11:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401019#Comment_120401019

"we all in Northern Ireland have a legacy and a problem with varying levels of religious bigotry. What I have a problem with is you singling out Donaldson for that tag."

This direct quote from you led me to believe that you agreed with me that Donaldson amongst others is a bigot.

I have backed up my claims with a newspaper article from the Belfast Telegraph and a video of Donaldson from BBC's Spotlight program. You have not addressed any of my claims and now you have the audacity to direct an insult to me ... "your prejudice"

I've presented (with proof) some evidence for Donaldson being a bigot and I've claimed that this bigotry rather than good political acumen is contributing to the DUP's bizarre behaviour over the past few years and particularly the past year. In short I believe that the DUP's refusal to engage in democratic politics is down to a hatred of Sinn Fein and nothing at all to do with the protocol.

Perhaps you are unable to debate this issue?

Suffering loss and wearing a uniform isn't really much of a counter-argument.

downcow · 26-03-2023 02:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402277#Comment_120402277

I have accepted that Donaldson, like the rest of us, is on that continuum. So are you getting annoyed that I agree he has been impacted by his environment and loss?

now would you accept that Gerry Adam’s is a sectarian bigot?

Fionn1952 · 26-03-2023 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402671#Comment_120402671

I'd struggle to see the relevance of a politician who hasn't been active in NI politics in well over a decade to Brexit's impact in NI myself....

downcow · 26-03-2023 04:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120403073#Comment_120403073

That’s not what the guards and the Psni say. They are quite clear that sf are being controlled by the Ira army council and I am not sure if Gerry has retired from that role or not

Choochtown · 26-03-2023 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402671#Comment_120402671

Again and again all I get back is "What about them'uns?"

I'll remind you that this thread is about the impact of Brexit on Northern ireland. If you want to discuss an ex-Sinn Fein president (from over 5 years ago), why don't you start a thread on him?

It is very relevant that Donaldson who championed Brexit is doing 2 despicible things on the back of it.

He is refusing to democratically engage in government to the detriment of everyone.
He is actively trying to remove a massive advantage to NI (access to 2 markets) to the detriment of everyone.

He and all who support him should hang their heads in shame.

Qu. Why is he doing this?

Ans. Because he is a proven bigot. (see evidence in my previous posts)

FrancieBrady · 26-03-2023 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120403238#Comment_120403238

It was a blatant attempt to restore a Unionist Veto, which was a feature of the bigoted sectarian state that went up in flames.

He has been resisted and defeated which is a great result for every democrat on this island.

26-03-2023 05:59PM

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/

Conor Murphy is still active and a bigot

Choochtown · 26-03-2023 07:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120403543#Comment_120403543

... and the relevance of that to "Brexit impact on Northern Ireland" is what exactly??

pixelburp · 27-03-2023 05:41AM

Fair play to Sorcha Eastwood cutting to the nub of reality, that some would cling to "constitutional issues" above any desire to actually work with ground level, everyday issues. It's reductive, but you also see and hear the frustration in her voice. A real sense of "FFS, this shíte again...".

In a nutshell this is why Alliance is slowly chipping away at the middle ground, while the DUP increasingly cuts a lonely, utterly intransigent and borderline figure.

Always worth remembering there are folks hitting maturity who were born around or after the GFA. They don't care about Shinners, or painting kerbstones or so on. They're supposed to be enjoying the fruits of this arrangement - not stuck indulging the affectations of dinosaurs.

https://twitter.com/Awkconpod/status/1638807595803607040

27-03-2023 07:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120403819#Comment_120403819

Both the DUP and SF tolerate bigotry. Singling out Donaldson is pointless.

Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

Comments