Dairy Calves 2024

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422205#Comment_120422205

I doubt it. Looks to be well researched on capacity figures etc. Near a thousand calves on one flight is not to be sniffed at.

A couple of hours flight time and done.

The racehorse and polo fraternity are doing it for forever to more distant destinations and not an eye blinked or word typed about it.

I'd be 110% behind the move.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422055#Comment_120422055

Is the minister supposed to micro manage everything in Agriculture. The lairage was closed by the French authorities.

I have not seen the reason why. Was it mismanagement of the lairage, is it a french political decision. Was it over calf age condition arriving there

Calf exports by sea are a hot potato. France is only an intermediate country. I have just done a bit of googling and it seems that there is videos of rough handling of calves circulating on social media.

Was the minister supposed to go over and unload the calves himself. Mind you if he did which lairage was he supposed to do it at. The second calf lairage is operating ok still for the moment.

We had an incident last year as well. These lairage need top class management. Something that costs money. Even drivers themselves need reminding that everything they are seen to be doing with these calves needs to be above board

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422341#Comment_120422341

All the minister had to do was make contact with the french minister or get his staff to make contact and sort out to get the place open, the minister sits at the same table in Brussels as the french for agriculture. If it was Joe Walsh it would have being done straight away, the drivers on the lorries know the game back to front and most are at it along time. Calves neglected or dead don’t get paid for on arrival. Having brought stock in from Europe and England on numerous occasions, we never had stock arrive in bad health.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422627#Comment_120422627

The drivers may have been to fault on this occasion.

alps

This airlift of calves is well researched and planned with some time.

Teagasc had a trial in place over 2 years ago on this and covid or similar interupted.

Calf health condition including blood tests will be measured before and after travel to assure the health benefits of this transport.

This could open up huge markets not only for dairy calves but for beef calves also.

Flight to Netherlands is only an hour, think of the range of countries you can get to in 3 or 4 hours..

Heard flights going today and tomorrow from an Airport not near Dublin.

straight

Ignore

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422238#Comment_120422238

The racing and polo industry are dealing with smaller groups of high value animals so it's not exactly comparing like with like. A single racehorse could exceed the value of 1000 Friesian sucks and the racing job is a multi billion euro industry. I struggle to see how flying large numbers of a low value commodity that requires top class management will prove viable but I was often wrong before.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422627#Comment_120422627

It happened last week and was closed probably on Friday ( I imagine that they through putted calves already on the boat.

How do you know the minister and/or his staff were not onto there French counterparts. For the last couple of weeks the French government have been dealing with street protests. I say a lairage closed in Cherbourg is top priority.

Calf exports is a hot potato, TBF to the French authorities they have put as little impediments in place as possible but politically anything to do with young animals ( and you are dealing with thousands) is a hot potato anyway.

Again it's not the French minister's job to micro manage an industry. Same as a restaurant if you do not follow the rules you get closed down

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422897#Comment_120422897

You could be right, however road transport is not cheap either. Truck hire for a 3 day trip, 2 lairage stops o the way..surely 50€ per calf dropped along the way..

800 calves per flight at €50 is €40,000. Would it cover the cost...no idea tbh but big numbers could cover a lot.

cute geoge

The trouble that happened was the ferry was delayed due to bad weather and took 22 hours instead of 17 .Then you had a green mep waiting for the ferry to dock so it would make the news .I can not see how Irish or French government can master the weather

smallbeef

It would sort the welfare issues and anything that gets livestock out of the country I would see as a good thing for beef prices.

I doubt it will be a runner on a cost basis though. Chartering a large plane will cost at least 150k to get those 800 calves to Europe. That's before handling on both sides. Will cost at least €200 euro per calf to get them to their destination. It would have to be heavily subsidized somehow.

Obviously its not a 'green' solution but f*@k 'em, if the aviation industry don't have to meet emissions targets we may as well load 'em up the steps. It might highlight how flawed all this carbon accounting BS is if nothing else.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422897#Comment_120422897

How is one racehorse worth more than a 1000 calves that are going to feed 10,000 families? I mean when the racehorse is finished it can't even be used as a seat or you'll loose your trainers license for a time. 😁

This is what the world has come to though. Cows are seen as carbon positive and drilling oil and gas wells. Horses are seen as haute couture and carbon negative and flowers and trees and ladies days follow in their wake. International air travel is recorded as carbon neutral on countries spreadsheets. The farmers with the cows and sheep have been wailing at meetings about airtravel to be told tough sh1t it's the way the negotiations were carried out, get your act together dumbos.

The activists will continue to target the french lairages. Our own will continue to look for reduced travelling times. The world will continue to only support local farm produce. The world turns. The Sun rises.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422985#Comment_120422985

I agree that's there's no easy solution and running a business exporting anything by road and ferry isn't for the faint hearted. As for the cost of chartering a plane I wouldn't have a clue either tbh but €40,000 seems a small sum when you consider what's involved. I could be as far out as a lighthouse on that assumption but I'd be afraid the true cost of what would be involved could be just staggering.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120422897#Comment_120422897

As well as that you are looking at trying to export 150-200k calves in a 5-6 week period. You need to access planes, flight crews. While there might be one plane that will carry 7-800 can you access several planes.

You are probably looking at 2 hours loading and 2 hours unloading and cleaning cargo area. Give the journey an hour and a half each way. That a 7-8 hour turnaround and allowing no time for a return cargo which loaded and unloaded would add another two hours minimum.

One plane might do 10k calves a week that two runs a day for the seven days. The larger cargo planes would require four for the duration of the calving season to shift 180 k calves over five weeks. It would take 15ish of the smaller ones and a system in place like the Berlin airlift.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423001#Comment_120423001

If it costs 200/ calf that grand let the dairy farmer arrive in the mart with 1k euro with every 6-7 Friesians bull calves. I probably go back to rearing them myself at that

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423019#Comment_120423019

I don't disagree with anything you've said there and sadly it comes back to the age old life lesson that what should happen and what does happen aren't one and the same.

I'm fairly certain you know more about the racing job than I do so you don't need me to explain why it is the way it is.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423019#Comment_120423019

It a poor thoroughbred horse that is not worth 30k that is racing. At Goffs yearling sales yearlings make up to a million. This spring a lot of Friesian calves were only making 20-70 per head.

You would put 20 horses comfortably where you would put 1k calves and the horse will walk on and off the plane

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423298#Comment_120423298

Know feck all of the racing industry. Well maybe a little.

On the air travel. There's even hairy piebalds being flown out to the United States from here.

On the logistics of calves in planes. They'll be loaded in crates and off in crates.

patsy_mccabe

1000 calves on the one plane. Imagine the bawling. The poor crew would want decent ear muffs. Some whiff of scour too.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423421#Comment_120423421

I was on a Ryanair to Faro last year. A couple of big stags and big hen party onboard. It was Bedlam, cabin crew were terrified. A few arrested when we landed. I'd take the 1000 calves any day.

Tonynewholland

Surely they have the sums done on this and know it can work.

straight

If it costs 200/ calf that grand let the dairy farmer arrive in the mart with 1k euro with every 6-7 Friesians bull calves. I probably go back to rearing them myself at that.

Na, u still wouldn't be happy. Understand that the meat processors will just knock that thousand euro right off the other end. Primary producers are bottom of the heap, just accept that.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423324#Comment_120423324

I thought you used to do a bit at the horsey job but maybe I'm mistaken. I didn't know that about them exporting horse's to America but anything is possible. There's a man not far from here sending lots of riding types to the continent but it's all lorries and ferries.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423806#Comment_120423806

No you're not mistaken. Area here is rife with thoroughbreds too. A real success story of a job in the area. Farms bought on the success of horses. Fodder imported from France. Roads are red with horseboxes between training days and general purpose trucking. Jim Derwin was a great man up on the way to your country for the exporting.

Anto_Meath

Don't know anything about flying horses or cattle, I know a lad who worked for Coolmore and he used to be on planes flying horses to USA and Australia. I recall him saying they needed to sedate some of them as some would be nervous flyers. There was special planes for it and as far as I know it was only out of Shannon that they would fly. But if a horse was going to the continent then they all went by road and sea as it was only a fraction of the cost plus he would say it wasn't near as stressful on the horse. You would think if the calves were in crates & loaded on and off then in less than 10 hours they were at their final destination that it would be good for them, but I would guess the cost would be astronomical to charter a plane to transport calves.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120424113#Comment_120424113

I think cost will be the barrier as well. Air cargo is really limited to high value JIT transit a lot of the time.

Loading and unloading will add to the cost. While crating might seem the solution to loading, when you unload you will need to bring a load of crates back again which have to be loaded empty into the returning plane

tabby aspreme

Some wet Friday afternoon calculations.

A Boeing 737 that carries 180 passenger's, can carry over 20 tonnes in freight spec, say 300 calves and the crate's for them. The average Ryanair fare in 2022 was 40 Euro, plus whatever they sell onboard, so 8000 per journey leg, of income, calves could probably be air freighted to Europe for 30 - 40 Euro if there was a reasonable turn around time, and some sort of a back load.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120424238#Comment_120424238

Passengers walk on and off a plane. Ryanair have a turn around time of about 40 minutes on planes. They have passengers nowadays checked into flight and standing on a stairs or at a door ready to board.

The back load is the crates the calves came in, unless you are going to buy completely new crates every load. It takes about 30 minutes to load or unload a full load of fertlizer, 14 pallets.

Ya you can speed it up by having an extra sets of crates that are cleaned and ready for reloading.

Cannot see total cost being less than 150/calf if it goes ahead.

tanko

Have to keep checking that it’s not April fools day yet, such nonsense, they’ll be using drones to fly them over next.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423902#Comment_120423902

Derwin handles a lot of stock and has outlets for nearly everything with a mane and a tail. The man I was mentioned used to be a sheep dealer but quit them totally in the last few years and solely at horses now. It's a tough business to be and more of a way of life really with the level of effort involved.

Anto_Meath

One thing I am assuming that would be another issue is the department vets on site in the airport to inspect the calves on arrival at their, detention pens and all the associated back up that would be need for checking calf passports. I know there would be no such facilities in Dublin airport and I would assume very few airports are set up on a constant basis to handle this sort of thing.