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Is Berties PR machine really powerful enough to pull this off?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,780 ✭✭✭buried


    "who told me"?? I read over the history of the entire conflict and deduce my own opinion myself. Probably be better if someone like Claire Byrne or Pat Kenny "told me" what opinion to have, wouldn't it? Look man, you continue to believe the whole thing was the mastermind plan of some gadge from Drumcondra who couldn't even set up a bank account, I'll continue to believe it actually had far more to do with actual geo-political and security concerns from far more powerful global players that goes well before Ahern's tenure of disaster.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,676 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    What book did you read, or what literature did you read that Bertie did nothing or had no part in the peace process?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    I thought that we were done with old men as President when Mary Robinson was elected. We went off course with Higgins. Electing Bertie would be a mistake. Potentially 28 years of old men representing Ireland on the world stage.

    Hopefully we get some decent candidates in 2025. One decent young candidate with a good organisation would outdo Bertie.

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,219 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I don't mind Higgins. I do like that the last three presidents are all human/civil rights activists in some way. I was worried last time we might get one of those god awful businessmen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,380 ✭✭✭✭lawred2



    I'm certainly not in Bertie's fan club but that's complete tosh

    He certainly didn't mastermind the entire process nor equally was he of zero value to the process. Truth is always somewhere in the middle.

    He was probably the right personality at the right time. In the right room with similarly engaged individuals.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,308 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I'd give Hume and Trimble much more credit than any FF politician. Bertie just wanted the photo op as someone said.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,780 ✭✭✭buried


    "Personality" has literally nothing to do with it. You are dealing with the British Security establishment actively wanting the peace process to play out, add to that you have the American security establishment also demanding the same thing. It was going to happen regardless of who was sitting in the Taoiseach's seat. This is this pathetic "personality cult" of this gadge laid bare here, that his "personality" helped get it over the line. Nonsense.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Relax brah


    Bertie playing a big part behind the scenes to get this new protocol over the line. The man is a legend and will someday be our president



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,736 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I wasn't downplaying their role at all but merely pointing out that to say Ahern had no involvement is completely untrue



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    ...and part of that legend is a Minister for Finance who didn't have a bank account, an unexplained £275,000 and the IMF coming in to sort out the mess his brand of politics made of the economy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭Stanley 1


    Bent the "Artists Exemption" tax rules, so Cecilia got in, the son-in-law and even himself, although would think his sales numbers down to discounts and imaginery sales.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭Doc07




  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    You claimed to have researched and read over history, so far based on the contents of your posts I suspect it might not have been Irish history or at least the history of North and Good Friday

    maybe share details of what you reviewed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    hume and Trimble do get credit, the noble peace prize ring any bells?

    i have yet to see anyone give Bertie glowing praise but to say Bertie was just involved for a photo op means you either you just don’t want to give him credit, or you actually haven’t a clue what happened to achieve the GFA



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭Archeron


    Good Friday contributions or not, I heard an ad on Newstalk for his podcast and it was sickening. Kindly grampa will tell us 'how he remembers it'.

    Fooooook off, I remember it too. And I remember the years after it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,429 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Bertie should bask in the glory of the GFA, in which he played a significant role. For much of the rest of his activities, it's a negative report.

    A Presidential election campaign is brutal. Ask many of those who thought they might suit and many would say they regretted running. Every small failure got amplified. For Bertie to take part it would be embarrassing and crushing. anyway, he'll never get the FF nomination. Like Brian Crowley before, he'll find himself shafted. He knows better than anyone, because that time it's he did the shafting.

    So Bertie, stick with the lucrative speaking circuit and the vegetable plot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭yagan


    Anyone with a memory of the time knows that Bertie and Blair merely got their homework from Reynolds and Major, and this Fianna Failers will bring this up if Bertie tries to wear that halo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,429 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Yagan, anyone involved would know, that an unbelievable amount of work was put in by very many people to get the GFA over the line. Acknowledging that is important. Some names who put in the most only get passing mention.

    Bertie in the middle of it buried his mother and was back involved the same day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,308 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭Stanley 1


    The same mother whose memory he abused by trying to say brown envelopes/cash he received were actually inheritance monies left to him by his mother, needless to say when asked for proof at Mahon, none was provided.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Do ye know what's particularly grinding my gears? The GFA was 1998. Early 1998. The tool was Taoiseach here another 10 years. Why doesn't he discuss the other 90% of his time in charge? I wonder



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Totally agree- but can you think of one such candidate with relative youth on their side (say early to mid 40s) but with a wealth of experience behind them? I can’t right now and the drivel that have showed up over the last few elections just shows how we can’t even field 2-3 decent presidential candidates out of population of 5 million- although saying that, looking around the world at other democracies with presidents, we’re not alone there 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    I posted a link to an interview done by Margaret O’Callaghan from Queens University on what input Bertie had. Queens is not known as a strong hold for "Fianna Failers".

    What this thread does provide is an insight into the lack of knowledge of the Good Friday Agreement, how it came about and who the main players are. It would be interesting to see age groups to see if people alive at that time actual knew what was going on, and even more interesting people born after the GFA what has the education system informed them about it, it was huge for Ireland, one of the biggest days in our history

    This is not to big up Berties role by the way, as I already said Hume and Trimble winning the Nobel(no typo this time to get called out on) peace prize would confirm that. But he was a player in the process and none of the people involved including Blair should have their position demoted because of acts they committed after the GFA



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,429 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The President has a key role in examining legislation and deciding whether to sign it or convene the Council of State. Might be no harm to put a few names here. We need to to do better than ABB, anyone but Bertie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    Who is in the mix?

    Honestly it is usual a list of "Who is that?" based on previous elections. The couple of lads off Dragons Den etc. Would suggest the role is nothing more than walking out at the sports games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,429 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    To pick two names Liz O'Donnell had a significant input at a detailed level in the GFA getting over the line. She also served well as head of the Road Safety Council. Has studied law.

    Ardal O'Hanlon, a comedian with a political background. Very interesting guy and deep thinker.

    Odd names, but shouldn't rule anything out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭redlough


    The only thing about Ardal is everyone will automatically think of his most famous role.

    You can imagine all the meme etc now



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Shelga


    I don’t think it needs to be someone particularly young, but I’d like to see a woman, seeing as we haven’t even had a female Taoiseach yet 🙄 Someone like Adi Roche or Mairéad McGuinness.

    I’d rather scrap the role of President altogether than see Ahern take it. It would be a shameful day for the nation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    iirc the real hero of that final phase of the GFA was Mo Mowlam, it was her who thrashed out the final details that got the agreement over the line. There was reports of all parties being in Stormont in separate rooms and Mowlam spent almost 24 hours going back and forth between the rooms holding Republicans and Unionists and pushing them into the agreement.

    She was exhausted but kept it going constantly walking the corridors from room to room barefoot and with her wig off. She basically pushed all parties to put pen to paper and she wasnt leaving that building until they did. She was suffering brain cancer at the time which was something that she had hid from Tony Blair because she wanted to stay on as Northern Ireland Secretary to get the GFA over the line.

    For me Mo Mowlam has always been a true hero of the GFA along with Hume & Trimble. Bertie was a bit part player in comparison to what they did, in fact Albert Reynolds and John Major both did way more than Ahern to bring peace to NI, it was them who set the wheels in motion. Especially Major because he risked his entire political career just by negotiating with the IRA, he put peace way above his own political interests when he didnt have to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,656 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    AFAIK if Michael D decided to retire in 2015 then there was a good chance Miriam might have ran for it as an independent FF candidate. She never ruled it out when she was asked if she would run and she was certainly enjoying the attention about it that she was getting in the thrashy magazines that she constantly gives interviews to so she can get the free clothes from the photoshoot and they can blow smoke up her hole, ('Mom of 8 kids, wow!Amazing!' ad infinitum).

    But more recently she did her monthly interview with one of those thrashy magazines who told us how great Miriam is for the umpteenth time and she finally ruled a run for the Presidency out when asked.



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