Random EV thoughts.....

Read up, the worst that could happen was more expensive tax and insurance, oh good God, it was a conversation, nobody died.

I'd say that most people buying an EV would be doing their research and would educate themselves in what to look for. I get that it was just an idle conversation, not product advice, but I also think it doesn't represent the typical buying experience

From my own experience of buying the Leaf in 2018, I did a load of research before even test driving to see if it was viable. And I spent the hours between the test drive and putting a deposit down doing research about charging and stuff. Now I definitely had a steep learning curve when I got the car but I wasn't going in blind either

There's definitely folks who just buy the first car they like the look of without doing any more research or asking any questions. Often they seem to get thank you cards from their mechanics every Christmas 😏

But I imagine most of them would stick to the familiar and buy an ICE instead of jumping into the unknown with an EV

I know one guy who was complaining that his wife's previous car had been giving her endless trouble for years (a certain French brand known for their consistent reliability) and when it finally kicked the bucket she went and bought the exact same model because she didn't want to learn anything new

EV Database have an archive of older models which is great for checking specs and generally has their real world range figure there too. Thei regular current model database is one of the best.

https://ev-database.org/compare/second-hand-used-electric-vehicle-archive

Nothing strange, nothing difficult, just plug the thing in, don't plug it in use more petrol, if they cannot figure that out, I see little hope.

What does not help anyone, is making crap up.

Toyota will (and are) buying others tech. They'll catch up when they want to and can probably do it fast considering their production capacity. It's simply the lack of will. They will have a slight issue with existing owners as they have alienated them from EVs... but they do well at BS marketing so that can probably be sorted.

You all have a lot of faith in Toyota. The problem is that faith doesn't get you anywhere. Toyota is up to the neck in debt. Not really making any EVs at all yet. And on the tiny number they do make, they do not make any profit. The biggest profit markets for Toyota are China and the USA. China is very problematic going forward for anyone except the higher end, because indigenous brands will simply devour that market whole. Toyota is not manufacturing / assembling EVs in the USA, which means their EVs (even if they had any) would not get the huge tax incentives, which would make them uncompetitive. So nobody would buy them

Also you all have a lot of faith in the power of the Japanese government. They indeed have been propping up their industry for decades. But this can not go on forever. A giant like Toyota about to fall over could well be the proverbial straw. Japan is in deep sh1t.

Volkswagen is in a very similar situation as Toyota. Up to the neck in debt. Very slow to adapt to making EVs on which they make no profit and they can't lower the prices to be more competitive. Same markets for profit. But that's where it ends. VW is likely to survive because the biggest benefits it has over Toyota:

1. they are now making EVs in exceedingly large numbers
2. they do make EVs in the USA, so those cars qualify for the grants
3. the German government does have the financials to bail VW out if needs be (even though it might cause a stir within the EU)

@liamog - I can't see any margins on EVs from those graphs, or am I missing something?

Would you read back on your own post and deduct from that, that VW have a decent margin on EVs?

I think not! 😂

Who is making ' crap' up?

I mean, apparently that's too smart for the majority of my neighbours. There's over a dozen PHEVs in the immediate area and not one of them is plugged in regularly

In fact the only place I regularly see PHEVs plugging in is the ESB chargers in Pavilions shopping centre. The cynic in me may conclude that it's because the chargers are close to the doors 😏

I'm not in any way saying that all PHEV owners drive them like that, but my observation is that a lot of people aren't bothered plugging them in and will take the lazy option

Cheap road tax generally is what I reckon

To be fair, I think a lot of people have the best of intentions when they buy them. I know one neighbour who tried to see how long he could go between refueling and managed 6 weeks of regular driving before filling up. That was with plugging in every night and he was complaining about how much he had to plug in to get that level of economy

So I think what often happens is someone buys a PHEV, plans to charge it, realises the electric range rarely covers a full day's commute, is too tired/distracted when they get home to plug in, stops bothering and just drives it like a petrol car

And yet no one can show me the margin they are making on their EVs 😂

Anyway my point was that they are in no position to lower prices of EVs significantly, but are in a much better position than the other giant, Toyota, to survive. It could well turn out that dieselgate was their saving. Pity they got rid of Diess though.

There you go. Thanks @horse7. This is a direct competitor to the VW ID.4 and Tesla Model Y. Slightly bigger and probably very well specced. With 77kWh battery (or a bigger 90kWh version) and excellent 0.238 Cd, so way more motorway range than Model Y 60kWh or ID.4 77kWh. Price from $28,500 😮

Tesla can chop another $10k off the price of the Model Y to compete with this if they wanted to, but VW can't.

Now do people see my point?

This is going to be some battle we have on our hands to be fought out over the next decade. Perhaps less