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Scottish independence

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    It will be the best kept secret ever if they have a leader in waiting



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I could say the same about yourself.

    We just disagree and will most likely always.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'd imagine most political parties will have several awaiting their chance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    Gender identity politics and trans prison policies were her downfall. She seriously misjudged the public on putting a trans rapist in a women's prison! Nail in the coffin for her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    The main stumbling block to independence is the issue of the EU.

    An independent Scotland inside the EU will lead to a whole new set of problems with England (border issues, different currency etc). It's putting off Scottish voters from wanting independence.

    So rather than being a plus for Scottish independence, Brexit has been a disaster for the movement.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It should be interesting if the Finance Minister gets the job.

    I heard today she is an Evangelical Christian and opposes same sex marriage and abortion. She abstained in the recent gender bill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's a bit premature to be writing off independence. Polls have up and down and in the lead all through 22 and even in Jan this year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,418 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Bollix. Brexit has increased calls for independence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It seems that the issue is settled for now as there was a referendum on the matter a few years ago.

    Brexit has made things worse for the cause and perhaps Scotland is better off waiting a generation. Maybe the UK as a whole will rejoin the EU in 30 or 40 years time. Then it might be opportune for the SNP to force a second referendum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It's increased calls but hasn't increased support for it.

    And during a campaign, the issue of the border with England will arise. The issue of Scotland joining the Euro will arise.

    Good luck passing a referendum when they arise. The Scots were afraid they'd lose the NHS and the welfare state the last time don't forget. Try telling them you'll have border checks with England and a new currency.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,024 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But there has never been any sort of momentum. It's always stuck in the low to mid 50s.

    And every time there is a precieved misstep by London the same people are on here telling us that this will be the thing that starts to push support for independence higher and higher..... and it never happenes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I never said anything about 'momentum'.

    I see no reason why they wouldn't get the same momentum thoughonce an actual campaign starts (possibly why the Tories won't allow one) as it did in 2014.

    This time they'll be coming from a higher polling than the 32% in 2014



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,024 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Try telling them you'll have border checks with England and a new currency.

    Oh don't worry about things like that, they will be easy to work out, it will be no problem, Scotland can have the best of both worlds

    Does that sound familiar?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,418 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    All of those things were issues before Brexit.

    Brexit lead to polls showing more support for independence (edit) so you are just straight up plain wrong to say Brexit has decreased support for Brexit.

    Post edited by breezy1985 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    In the end she proved herself to be an extremely poor politician.

    She picked the trans issue as a way to show Scotland needs to be out of the UK when it was obvious she didn't really believe in it herself and it was obvious that it is a minor issue that people really don't care about and this has now led to her downfall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I presume you mean independence.

    I'm not talking about polls. I said if there was a campaign and these issues arose, I can predict a sinking of the independence vote. That's my view and many others have made the same point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Indeed, she and the SNP don't strike me as a social issues type party.

    Why they went down this route against their own instincts is baffling.

    One can only assume it was designed as an anti Tory strategy, rather than a serious attempt to improve trans rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think Sturgeon stepped down before the s..... hits the fan. The fact that she doesn't have a planned successor or front runner can also be interpreted that her departure was an act of desperation.

    She failed domestically, NHS Scotland, as well as education, and then there is the drug problem in Scotland which is rather high compared to anywhere in Europe. She's gotten nowhere with independence.

    Also the SNP faced a probe around fraud, something unpleasant for any first minister.

    She failed basically everywhere.

    How she got her political support and rating in Scotland is beyond my comprehension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,418 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Oh ya sorry you meant the non poll type of support which is absolutely impossible to quantify outside your own head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,059 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    In a mood today? Scottish issues make you angry?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,280 ✭✭✭✭Danzy



    Great news, she started out good but went down a strange path and has done significant damage to the cause of Scottish independence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,280 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The Daily mail are vermin, correct vermin in this case. Straw camel back etc etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    You could but on what basis? There are no federal elections in the UK and this has been pointed out to you many many times previously yet you still persist in stating there are.

    You also assert that the NHS in Scotland is failing yet fail to acknowledge Scotland is not an independent country and the budget is set in Westminster. The NHS is failing across all four NHS in the UK and the only common denominator is the Westminster govt. In fact, the NHS in Scotland outperforms the other three in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Sturgeon mentioned that the next federal election will also be an election made for Scottish independence. She could not have been more wrong about this. First a federal election is clearly there to elect an MP into Westminster, and second Edinburgh has no right to hold a 2nd referendum. The decision came from the supreme court. One can't go any higher than that.

    Look at the deaths due to drug overdoses in Scotland, same as the NHS Scotland which is far worse than the NHS in other nations, such as England. Sturgeon's domestics performance was more than poor, it was abysmal, and yet some like yourself don't want to see that. But that's a bit the same like speaking to an ardent Trump supporter in the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Very hard to believe that something like this would be the deciding factor in her future as a politician - it's really only a minority 'culture war' issue of interest to the English far right aka the Daily Mail, GB News etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,535 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    If this is a failed politician, goodness knows what terms we have to use to describe the rest of them.

    'It is better to walk alone in the right direction than follow the herd walking in the wrong direction.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    To be fair, those results match the voters for independence so really anyone leading the SNP during that period should expect those numbers. The problem for Sturgeon and her legacy is many of those voters feel duped



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,978 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    There are no federal elections in the UK, it is clear you live abroad and do not understand the electoral process in the UK

    Show us the figures that back up your NHS assertions



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    She was popular, but failed in most if not all other tasks.

    Scotland can "pride itself" with the highest death rate on drug abuse in Europe, - domestically Sturgeon didn't do anything about that. She also failed in domestic issues like the NHS Scotland which is far worse off than the one in England, same as on education matters.

    Furthermore, Sturgeon has a law degree, right? But yet she claims to make the next UK general election a quasi referendum on Scottish independence. That after the supreme court of justice has ruled that Edinburgh had no right to hold a second referendum. As a studied lawyer she should at least understand that. Plus the majority of seats from Scotland in Westminster are already held by the SNP? Come on, are the Scotts really going to fall for that idiocy? A UK general election is certainly not a referendum on independence.

    Also the fact that she has left no front runner, no succession in place, leads me to believe that her departure was one in desperation. If she really cared so much and was so confident in an independent Scotland she would at least have nominated a worthy successor, but she didn't.

    There is also an ongoing investigation by the police into SNP finances and campaign fraud. A very delicate matter for any first minister.....

    At least Sturgeon is smart and knew when to go, before somebody else tells her to....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 66,969 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Since she became leader in 2014 the Tory party have seen 5 leaders.

    A new leader generally brings a re-focus and a bounce. Will be interesting to watch.



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