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N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    It does not make any sense to me whatsoever to have 90÷ of traffic exiting the tunnel using 1 lane (City & East) and 10% using the other lane (M8).You should be able to head east using either of the 2 lanes.

    It's causing huge tailbacks at peak times right now and with the speed limits will continue to cause issues even when the tunnel is free flow, unless they plan on changing it of course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    The lower speed limit should increase the throughput of the junction, not decrease it.

    The removal of traffic lights will remove all traffic issues exiting the tunnel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    There are no traffic lights at Bloomfield right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I THOUGHT the final plan was for two (of the four) lanes coming out of the tunnel would go N25E. The models and pictures haven't really been detailled enough to tell but I think, despite what the awful gantry signs say, that that is to be the case in the final layout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭cork_south


    If that's the case then happy days.

    If not, and they keep the existing lane layout as-is with 10÷ of the traffic using 50÷ of the available lanes, then there will be tailbacks in the left hand lane at rush hour guaranteed, even when all lights have been removed from the junction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    It makes sense I think. So going into the tunnel coming northbound towards Dunkettle you would have:


    Left lane: Slip to Tivoli, N25 east

    Right lane: M8 to Dublin, N25 east


    At the northern side of the tunnel when it goes to four lanes you would have -

    Leftmost lane: Slip to Tivoli

    Second lane: N25 east

    Third lane: N25 east

    Rightmost lane: M8 to Dublin


    The N40N to N25E slip is designed with two lanes so this arrangement would make sense to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,473 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Incredibly dangerous. Those crossings are highly likely to cost lives. Unfortunately with the 3% supported green junta in government this is the type of stupidity you tend to see.

    I saw the latest drone footage and my jaw nearly hit the floor. The most dangerous design you'll see Crossings on slip roads ffs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Risoc


    I agree it's poor but am not certain as to what the best fix would be.

    What are the options?

    Moving the crossings to the roundabout exit itself? Poor and dangerous but a marginal improvement. Constant back-ups at busy periods.

    An underpass at each roundabout? Probably best solution that I can think of. Cost a bit.

    Underpass the whole N25? Expensive.

    Force cyclists on to the road? No thanks.

    Remove slip-road I? A bit late for that.

    Others? I'd imagine I'm missing some obvious solutions



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    An underpass would be super-expensive, and present cyclists with steep slopes down and up: the rest of the cycle-lanes are at-grade.

    Another option is to raise the crossing so that cars can’t just drive through it - there’s sill plenty of time to get up to the main road’s speed afterwards.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Another available option was simply to connect Dunkettle Roundabout with Little Island over the Tunnel Management road. They would have likely needed a rail bridge and possibly a bridge over a small portion of the water, because the whole harbour is a SPA, but it would have been easy and preferable for everyone.

    Ballinglanna-origin users could use one of the two routes to Little Island, City-origin users would have a better outcome, Carrigtohill-origin users would be unaffected.

    Yes it was suggested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Drawing of alternate route I'm describing:



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Also, inexplicably, the previously-proposed new sustainable transport bridge from Little Island train station into Eastgate could be a pretty desirable alternative, but IMO there's still really no excuse for all the weird bodge jobs they're doing for the pedestrian/cycle route through this interchange.


    Edit: "inexplicable" because that bridge wasn't funded.

    Post edited by hans aus dtschl on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Yeah its really bad provision. REALLY bad.

    TBH I can't see those lights being an issue. I don't think that many pedestrians will use them as not many people walk that way.

    And no cyclist in their right mind will come off the bike to go down and use them - they'll just stay on the roundabout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭cantalach




  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Risoc


    Yes it is and simple; but you would want it to link up with the other side of the road at some stage; probably via the pre-existing flyover by Little Island train station after going through Eastgate Industrial Estate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Would be a cracking route for tying in with the future Tivoli Docks developments too



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    A more direct route with a bridge above the mouth of the tunnel and joining the road in front of the Tunnel Management Building would be even better. It would shorten the journey and be through a less isolated area which would be more attractive, particularly after dark. A bridge would be more expensive but it's the least they could do after the abdication of duty regarding cycling in the junction design.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭gooseman12


    On the latest video i'm just noticing that as well as the addition of the inappropriate signalised crossing on the new eastbound slip, they have also added another lane to the approach to the roundabout from the m8 and tunnel slip. (circled in yellow below)

    I dont recall this in the original plans, similar to the crossing. I had previously considered the single lane approach to the roundabout an issue with the possibility of excess queuing and it looks like the project engineers thought similar and added an extra lane.

    What is curious with a lot of these changes is, as a previous poster mentioned, the ad hoc/willy-nilly nature of them. Not included or considered in the original design and then added as an after thought.

    I know it is a large project with considerable moving parts but there are teams of engineers getting paid to have thought about these things in advance and work out the best possible solutions. Now in the end certain things, especially that crossing, seem like right hatchet jobs.





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Movement drawings on the project website seem to have 2 lanes entering the roundabout on that arm. They aren’t the entire length of the slip though. A lane just opens upon roundabout approach.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭gooseman12


    yep you're right, just went back and had a look. That's my bad on the lane. I don't know where I got it stuck in my head that it was one lane on approach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    If the arctic in the photo had come from Little Island and was heading for the N25 Eastbound and got a red light at the pedestrian crossing it wouldn't half screw up the flow on the roundabout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Great photo of how Link F is proceeding.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    Got lost on the Dunkettle Interchange for the first time ever. Coming northbound from Mahon and needed to go to Little Island but ended up on the Glanmire Bypass and had to loop back. It’s extremely confusing in that direction at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    No it’s not. There’s untold number of signs and a media campaign about lane usage heading towards the roundabout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    Well clearly I’m unbelievably stupid then 🤔

    Last time I post here. The signs are very very poor from the Mahon side. One even makes it look like you should drive into the tunnel escape lane.

    Media campaign where exactly? I don’t listen to Red or 96 so I have no idea about It.

    I’ve seen some drone stuff on here which I can’t follow at all

    The slip from city direction onto the M8 if coming from the city is also downright dangerous. It’s way way too short and the traffic moves way too fast towards it. It makes it a horrible merge.

    Coming in from Dublin last night cars were also confused and making last minute switch of lane to right or left. It needs more warning ahead of it that the layout has radically changed. It also doesn’t currently have any sign for the city. It mentions N40 only.

    The signage is gantries but it’s not that easy to follow and the layout is very confusing at this halfway point .

    Glad to hear feedback is welcome though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭EnzoScifo


    to be fair there are two giant overhead gantries on the N40 before the tunnel that tell you what lane to be in for Little Island and for M8. I actually think the signage is worse once out of the tunnel and heading to the roundabout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Whoever the genius was that decided to reduce the approach lane from the M8 to the tunnel to a single lane in the first place should be fired for gross incompetence.

    To do so then with no advance warning until you're almost on top of the split is even more inexcusable.

    I am down that way a lot and there's constant last minute dives for the tunnel lane, or chancers skipping the queue and trying to force their way back in at the bollards.

    Typical Irish project - all theory and fancy graphics and appeasing of trivial minorities (the Greens in this case) but virtually no relation to reality or how it's going to affect the real world usage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭yagan


    The problem I constantly see approaching from the M8 is that drivers aren't paying attention to the major motorway signs showing clearly which lane to be in. I've seen too many drivers going way over the 60km limit on approach and then slam on the brakes to switch lanes at the last minute.

    The signs are fine, some fuckwits just don't pay attention.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,130 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Every time coming down that road you just know there'll be multiple people in the wrong lane, likely stopped dead in the middle of the road trying to cross the hatching to get into the correct lane...insanity!

    Also regarding the single lane for m8 to tunnel, will that only be single lane on completion? If so unsure where they'd fit another lane right now. A lot of the complaints about it are centred on what will be temporary problems, they could hardly keep the previous set up the whole way through the project



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