N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879958#Comment_121879958

Once you get close to the interchange move right and stay there as you pass through it and the tunnel itself.

Next exit is Mahon. Continue on but after that move far left and take the exit (it's very much like the M50N to N7 exit in that regard in terms of how it functions)

As you come off the slip, move right one lane and continue on this road until you pass a Maxol garage on your left and then get to the roundabout (Shannonpark). You are going right. Note that this roundabout is a mess with 2 right turn lanes merging into one exit and leads to racing/overtaking mid-turn.

Anyway... continue after the roundabout and go through the lights and then through the next 3 roundabouts. You'll pass a Circle K, another Maxol and the Church as you do this.

You're now in the centre of Carrigaline.

Live at Three

It has been a pleasure following this forum over the last three years, reading about traffic, merging and efficiency while experiencing it first-hand every day, I have to admit that my way of thinking about driving has changed, and hopefully for the better after reading so many different insights from those in the know on here.

I have changed my mentality around "letting people in". I have become much more generous to people who want to merge in front of me and not treating it as a zero sum game where I lose out if I let someone pass, even if they seem to have skipped a few places.

This morning, a guy coming from n25 flashed his hazards to thank me for "letting him in" before the tunnel. I know that he meant well and it was a nice gesture, but I would almost go as far as saying that I would rather he didn't flash the hazards, as that suggests that he's still in the mindset that letting people merge is doing someone else a favour, and something that you can chose not to do if you don't feel like it.

A few weeks ago I witnessed one of the many crash-and-pile-ups that happens at the Bloomfield area. It happened as a result of several people driving too close to the car in front...and for what reason? To stop someone else from getting in? I was very close to this and it frightened the bejeesus out of me. It happened in a split-second.

I feel that now most merges would flow a lot better if everyone left simply a lot of space in front of them, regardless of which road has priority. Especially as it's free flow now, there are no red lights, just merging points. I have a utopian vision in my mind of wonderfully efficient drivers zippering and merging like synchronised swimmers, or teeth in gears, going at a steady cruise and never having to touch the brakes, or flash the hazards.

Another thing I've stopped thinking about is changing lanes. I used to keep an eye on both lanes and see if I could predict which one would move faster, and do one or two dodgy lane changes between the tunnel and Bloomfield. I now regard this a stupid behaviour. Now when I go from M8 to nN40 I stay in the right lane until I get past the Bloomfield interchange. This may be controversial (so please don't kill me) as I know that people hate a driver who stays in the overtaking lane for no apparent reason. However, if I go back into left lane after tunnel when there's a space, I know that I'll end up being part of the jam that forms when the rochestown people try to merge, and in order to free up this merge I'll have to move out to the right again. I hate changing lanes in this area, as it is dangerous and contributes to more traffic.

To be clear, I'm not holding people up by staying in the overtaking lane in this area, I still move faster than the lane to my left so I'm still using the lane to overtake. I'm still moving at a speed similar to the car in front of me, the only difference is that I'm leaving a big gap.

This approach usually works fine. I've actually noticed other cars in my lane taking the exact same approach, leaving a gap in front of them and allowing rochestown people to peel in from the left. Whereas I used to be of the opinion that "ok I'll let one of them in and then close up the gap" now I don't care if two or three drivers slip in in front of me, as it's helping to free up the overall merge. I do occasionally get impatient drivers behind me though, glaring at me from under their hoodies, nervously zig sagging a foot or two away from my ass trying to find a way around me.

I love the new interchange. My arrival time at work is now up to 20 mins earlier than it was pre-covid. I look forward to safer and more efficient driving!

Chris_5339762

Someone rear ended me last year at Bloomfield writing off my car. I was fine, so was he, but he was tailgating and couldn't stop in time when I needed to brake for a queue of traffic.

At the Kinsale Road flyover, same thing nearly happened yesterday. Cars in front stopped suddenly, I needed to brake (plenty of space), person behind me way too close and nearly rear ended me. I could see his car move from side to side as he weight anchor. Very close.

From now on I'm pottering behind a lorry in the left lane when I'm commuting. Not worth the hassle of being in the overtaking lane, its absolutely ridiculous the tailgating going on now.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891325#Comment_121891325

From The RSA website

'Failure to leave appropriate distance between you and the vehicle in front'

3 penalty points on payment of the fine or 5 penalty points on conviction.

The fine is €160 if paid within 28 days of the offence or €240 if paid in the subsequent 28 days. A third payment option is also available

What's needed is unmarked Roads Policing cars pulling in offenders daily. If done effectively it should teach people that it's not worth partaking in the practice of polishing the rear bumper of the car ahead.

mcburns07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891535#Comment_121891535

We could do with some policing on the roads full stop, virtually non existent these days.

Chris_5339762

Apart from the occasional speed van monitoring eastbound traffic just before the Douglas exit I've never seen a single bit of enforcement of anything on the south ring in the mornings or the evenings.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891535#Comment_121891535

Could easily be enforced with a few fixed cameras on the gantrys along the road.

Hibernicis

While nothing to do with the interchange, tailgating is very unnerving, and a classic example of the worst of macho behaviour on the roads. It can be incredibly intimidating. And it appears to be ever more frequent. It is very difficult to deal with sensibly, other than adhering to the speed limit and slowing safely if necessary to ameliorate the risk. Unfortunately this usually leads to further aggressive behaviour, flashing headlights, beeping horns, swerving etc.

I wonder are there any stats for penalty points issued for 'Failure to leave appropriate distance between you and the vehicle in front'. I have never heard of anybody getting points or bring charged for this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891535#Comment_121891535

Would love to see how many people have ever been prosecuted for that ... I'm guessing zero.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902429#Comment_121902429

It should be possible to enforce this by camera and other things too. Have a "smart" camera tag examples for review and ticket those involved. This type of approach has a role to play.

Markcheese

To be honest it would be easy enough to set up cameras on gantries on the n40 ,dunkettle + approaches, anpr would take care of identification ,and software could identify which cars are driving erratically, tail gating ,soeeding , weaving , lane hogging, on phones or texting , and it could be reviewed by real people . Before a ticket was sent out

KrisW1001

ANPR and cameras are already in place on N40.

niloc1951

As the old saying goes 'Where there's a will there's a way'

Unfortunately, despite all the political and Garda rhetoric about driving safer there appears to be very little will to seriously address the problem of pi$$ poor driving behaviour on our roads. Apart from the odd short-lived 'slow down' and anti-drink/drug-driving campaign

Chris_5339762

The trouble is I don't believe it is "piss poor driving". The people doing it are likely competent drivers, but choose to be terrible on the roads and bully everyone else. Thats harder to solve.

But the police etc here have absolutely no interest in doing anything about it.

niloc1951

I spent a few minutes this morning looking at the various cameras covering the interchange.

While there were queues on the M8 to N40 and N25 to N40 links the speed on the actual N40 (the 100m before the tunnel) and into the tunnel seemed very slow, maybe only 40 km/h, yet the Bloomfield interchange was flowing freely.

Perhaps if drivers moved a bit quicker into and through the tunnel the queues on the M8 and N25 might not be so bad

Interestingly, number six in the list of the top ten reasons for people failing their test is Not making sufficient Progress on the Straight

Chris_5339762

Nah, its the wholly unnecessary 2-into-1 and then the subsequent merge into the with the Little Island traffic on the N25 slip into the tunnel southbound that is causing the problems there. And the result is some people are going down to the Dunkettle Roundabout, doing a loop of it, and then accessing the tunnel via the N25E to N40S loop - which is causing some delays again on the M8S.

I know that there are constraints there, but that 2-into-1 is just ridiculous I think. Would flow better without it.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912979#Comment_121912979

'some people are going down to the Dunkettle Roundabout, doing a loop of it, and then accessing the tunnel via the N25E to N40S loop - which is causing some delays again on the M8S'

When I was watching this morning there was not a lot of traffic on that loop joining the M8.

Definitely, a significant contributor factor in the queuing up to the merge points was the slow movement of traffic after the merge points and onwards to the tunnel. Think of a funnel with a tap in the outlet restricting the output flow.

niloc1951

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41357416.html

cork_south

At peak times it took less time to get to the tunnel south bound from East Cork before the DKI upgrade even though you had to go through 2 sets of lights, 1 for the Little Island and 1 at the Interchange.

The upgrade has mainly been a success for all other traffic flows though tunnel northbound at peak is still pretty bad.

AugustusMinimus

I keep reading that the NRR is now the only other solution to resolve traffic here.

How will an NRR help with N25 - Tunnel traffic. It will hardly remove any traffic from this movement.

cork_south

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924962#Comment_121924962

It could possibly help remove commuter traffic heading to Ballincollig or Macroom direction I suppose.

mydiscworld

So what's causing the East Cork backlog into tunnel, the merging lanes before the tunnel?

cork_south

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925474#Comment_121925474

4 lanes (2 from Little Island, 2 from N25) with heavy traffic at peak times merging to single lane on a bend before the tunnel.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924985#Comment_121924985

Would be quite a detour although likely faster given traffic levels on both routes.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924962#Comment_121924962

AFAIK, the Northern Ring Road referred to in the Examiner article is the proposed one for Midleton to relieve the congestion in the town of Midleton. There's already a lot of industry and housing on the existing bit which now ends on the L7630

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925590#Comment_121925590

Pretty much it ,the design of the merge points isnt great , moving the n25 merge back was a good idea , but the little island merge is very long , and the final merge is right before the bend ,

It could be tweaked

veryangryman

Looking at thread title. Is the works still ongoing

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926225#Comment_121926225

Nothing really much construction wise, more likely landscaping details. Weird not getting the weekly update

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925827#Comment_121925827

I’m talking about the proposed Cork NRR.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926286#Comment_121926286

I'm not sure many here are saying it's the solution to the Dunkettle Interchange? Rather plenty people (me included) are saying that capacity expansion of the N40 (for instance at Douglas) isn't a sensible use of money. The N40 north is needed for N/M20 to Dunkettle link, and it's needed for the N/M20 to Ballincollig link, but it's not going to solve N25/N40 traffic issues.

The issue isn't the DkI, the issue is reams of one-off-housing with no sustainable connectivity or alternative connectivity.

I'd like to take a second to point out that the same public representatives who are bemoaning the traffic on the N25 are pushing for new large housing developments to be built and connected right onto the N25 (using public money, no less!). They're in no way a trustworthy source of information or transportation ideas. I'd go further and say that some of them haven't got a clue what they're talking about and are best ignored.

The cheerleaders and facilitators of the DkI issue are the same ones complaining about the mess they're very actively creating. If I was in the NTA or TII I'd be absolutely fed up of hearing their nonsense.

By way of explanation, development after development is getting approved in the County LA area with no facilitating infrastructure. Ballinglanna, Waterrock, Adamstown, Blossomhill, Broomfield, Castleredmond etc etc etc. Each of these is promising that there will be no significant increase in car traffic, in order to get approval. Each one is getting cheered on by the council, because houses are so desperately needed. Each one is adding lots of additional traffic onto the N25.

Even on a basic level, the same council took the planning regulator to court for trying to stop them building a surface outlet mall in Carrigtohill!

"I'm pro unsustainable growth in car traffic, and someone needs to solve the mess I'm creating"

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926286#Comment_121926286

That may be, but the article in the Irish Examiner https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41357416.html, referred to the Midleton Northern Relief Road (Midleton NRR) and concentrated on issues arising from traffic grinding to a halt at peak times in Midleton and around Carrigtwohill, while queues from that direction into the Jack Lynch Tunnel have worsened since the Dunkettle junction’s €220m upgrade

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926948#Comment_121926948

There is big rail project currently ongoing to serve those housing developments in East Cork you're talking about. It includes two new stations to serve Water Rock and Carrigtwohill West with electric trains running up to every 10 minutes.

However, to get commuters off the N25 to N40 route (The JLT) a significant improvement in the intermodal interconnection environment is needed at Kent Station connecting the Cork East area to the Cork South area.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926968#Comment_121926968

I never made any reference to that article.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927565#Comment_121927565

Thats a big part of the problem. The bus links are terrible from Kent. You can't even get from the station to the hospital without changing buses or walking up a dodgy set of steps. There should also be many more bus lanes in the city.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924962#Comment_121924962

Any time I travel from west of Cork city (Bandon etc) towards Limerick and vice versa, the N40/JLT/DKI/M8/R513 features as the either the optimal route on Google Maps, or in second place by 2 or 3 mins compared to the twisting dirt track that is the alternative. Combined with my preference for the M8/R513 vs the N20 it's certainly my route of choice, and I know others who feel the same. If the N40 ring road, a stated objective of TII which incorporates the Cork NRR, were ever to be completed, I wouldn't need to go anywhere near the DKI. Similar, to address your question, there must be a large number of people heading from the N25 to points west of the city who could take a northern arc rather than a southern arc based on traffic conditions and time to destination.

The South Ring section of the N40 is currently at capacity and further upgrades are challenging to say the least and unlikely to improve the situation. It is also a massive single point of failure. Completion of the NRR can only relieve both of these issues with knock on effects for traffic coming from the N25 and other inbound routes.

The only other possibility to alleviate the current capacity constraints is to build an outer southern bypass and rename this as the Southern section of the N40, and reclassify the SRR as a southern distributor. But I'd suggest that as the N40 ring road including the NRR is a higher priority.

DylanQuestion

Signage is finally being updated at Dunkettle Roundabout (and the entire length of the N8, bar the eastbound roundabout sign). So far, the N8 exit and M8/N40/N25 exit signs updated with N40. Glanmire exit sign still to be done. While one of the N8 on ramp roundabout signs from the tunnel was updated to remove Cork and replace it with City Centre, all of the new signage at Dunkettle Roundabout says Cork, until the very first sign on the N8 (just <50m after the roundabout). Little Island still has the City Centre/Cork/Limerick mix up, and another sign showing the same mistake has since been added.

niloc1951

Nearly got my bonnet flattened by a large tractor making a last minute dive across from the left lane of theN40 to the M8 as I was heading to the N25 in the righthand lane.

Judging by the cacophony of horns from following vehicles after I hit the brakes other drivers were not impressed by the tractor drivers stunt either.

There really needs to be repeated large markings on the N40 indicating that the M8 is only accessible from the righthand lane.

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975326#Comment_121975326

the signage on the N40 indicates that it’s accessible from both lanes. It’s an absolute mess.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766995#Comment_121766995

They have responded again

"Thank you again for your email… below.

A full review of signage in the Dunkettle area is taking place in relation to the use of “Cork” and/or “City Centre”. We expect that this review will be completed over the coming period and any necessary changes will then be implemented.

Thank you again for bringing this item to our attention and matters will hopefully be progressed to a satisfactory conclusion over the coming period."

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979836#Comment_121979836

Who are you mailing? I'm going to send them something too.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982400#Comment_121982400

Me too, about the signage for the M8 on the N40 which indicates the M8 is accessible from both lanes of the N40, resulting in some drivers making a last minute dive across lane 2 of the N40 after they exit the tunnel.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976230#Comment_121976230

What about Sat-Navs? last time I was through there it was both lanes for M8.

Maybe someone going North through tunnel would ask sat-nav for Fermoy and see what it says now.

Not everyone going through there is familiar with the layout, and it's easy to assume the N40 to M8 is a 2 lane through road with the N25 as an exit from the left lane.

DylanQuestion

roadconstruction@ccc-site.com

AugustusMinimus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982961#Comment_121982961

Google maps states that any lane can be used to access the M8 slip. Crazy stuff.

KrisW1001

Yeah, but Google Maps has always been pretty crap as a navigation app. It's usually the last to get updated any time a road opens.

If the signage was correct, this would be okay, but it's not, so it makes the problem worse.

The most important instruction is "Use right lane for Dublin". I think a two panel "All other routes | Dublin" gantry would be the clearest and safest option. Everyone else has a chance to move lanes, but Dublin traffic is kind of screwed if it emerges from the tunnel in the left lane.

cork_south

Another crash at Bloomfield yesterday.

I wonder are these planned works for the M28 or for possible improvements at Bloomfield.

Surveying Works # Location: - N28/N40 Bloomfield Interchange / Dates: - Sunday 14/04/2024 for 1 Week (Night-time Works) / Note: - Traffic Management in effect

Chris_5339762

Its just pure bad driving there thesedays. People forcing the merge, people tailgating in the overtaking lane. Result: crashes.

cork_south

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996010#Comment_121996010

And people merging from multiple different merge points.

As discussed already here forcing mergers to merge correctly at the end of the merging lane would help avoid a lot of the tailbacks to the tunnel, and of course help avoid a lot of these crashes.

Hopefully something is done soon.

niloc1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996034#Comment_121996034

How the merge atvRathcoole on the N7 is done, it ain't rocket science

N7

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pbNuXhERCkNCtLNw8

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122007399#Comment_122007399

How does that particular merge force mergers to merge correctly? Sorry I'm not a rocket scientist.