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Thinking of buying a PHEV

  • 05-02-2023 8:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭


    I'm going to change my car and I'm very tempted to go for a PHEV.

    I live in the Midlands and the standard drives are about 50 to 60km round trip if I go to the town (Mullingar, Longford or Athlone) and the kids schools are about 5km and 15km away.

    I work from home the majority of the time and when I do go to the office in Dublin I get the train from Mullingar.

    I like the idea of the PHEV as it should cover my standard use cases, but I still would have petrol for longer drives if and when needed.

    My budget is around the 40k mark and I had started to look at the Kia Niro.

    Any other suggestions as to what I should consider in that price range?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    A PHEV won't cover your typical range on battery alone, especially not in colder months. You would be using petrol alot of the time. Have you considered a full EV? Any EV built in the last few years would cover your daily needs, but your budget just about buys a Tesla Model 3 since it has recently dropped in price to around 44k. It would get you to Dublin and back on a single charge. The larger SUV type Model Y is 2k more. These might be worth considering.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭deadl0ck


    Wow. Didn't realise that.

    Is there a crazy waiting period do you know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,810 ✭✭✭Alkers


    At that price point just go full EV



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    @deadl0ck If you order now, it is likely you will be offered a cancelled order due for March deliveries. A lot of people ordered Model Y but will probably not be taking delivery because the price drop reduced the value of their model 3 much lower than expected due to the high number of Model Y orders relative to Model 3 trade-ins.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Agree with earlier advice to go full EV but if you already have a car to trade in you may have to look beyond a new Tesla to other makes. Tesla are unlikely to want your existing car.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    They don’t even want Teslas as trade-ins right now, as they are focused on new car deliveries. Any trade-in is farmed out for offers from other dealerships. Selling privately or using the likes of zucar is the best option. Even if the trade offer is not good, the price difference makes it a no-brainer when looking to the competition.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    Nice to see we haven't moved past the "no brainer" option to buy Teslas yet their market share is...checks notes....not 100%

    As the pie grows larger their share gets smaller

    smh



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Maybe you aren't aware of the recent price cut. Its hard to argue with anybody that they don't offer great value compared to the alternatives right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    I am aware. And yes they offer decent value (ofc nobody knows delivery dates until they come, which defo does impact price if after June so then the decent value point is up in the air). But using the words "no brainer" to somebody who is exploring options of a new car is misleading at best. Same poster constantly at it in multiple threads. I will push back against this when I see it



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭innrain


    He is aware, just doesn't like Teslas. I was just leafing the usual magazines auto-express/autocar/what a car, and was thinking how hard is to push a new car right now. Example at hand Opel Astra PHEV The car tested 53k, the cheapest 46k. They have launched the EV variant no prices yet but based on the other models expect few 000s more.

    You really have to hate Teslas to pay 10k more for this. Having said that competition is good and I hope they'll find ways to make Astra what it was 25 years ago.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Surely an astra will be id3/cupra born price and not 10k above?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭innrain


    Opel Ireland pricelist. Probably add delivery 1-2k




  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭LasersGoPewPew


    Wow. I'm astonished at those prices, not even a BEV. Who on earth would buy one at those?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,113 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Definitely consider a full EV, but then I was never a fan of the half way house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Just wow. I haven't looked at many pricelists recently but the astra has not just reached the price of the class of its bigger sibling the insignia (has that been discontinued?) but is now up there with 330e prices for the phev.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Mod Note: Keep the personal disagreements out of the forum, posts deleted. Stick to attack the post, not the poster.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The decent value will still be decent value after June as every other ev will have risen by the same amount. So relatively speaking, it will still be decent value compared to all others for sale in June and beyond.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It does depend somewhat on what happens, if they take the approach they have with VRT relief reductions we could see a graduated reduction in grant leading to cheaper cars staying the same whilst the more expensive models become more expensive. It's all speculation right now and I suspect SIMI is campaigning hard that it's too early to start phasing out whilst we're still in a supply constrained market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭innrain


    Yes Insignia got discontinued with expected return as EV somewhere in 2026. The SUV is the big thing now, Opel offering Crossland, Mokka and Grandland.

    If you want to see more pricelists have a look at Peugeot which I really like and think of 508 as a decent Model3 competitor. For those who prefer SUVs 5008 vs MYRWD still few 000's more expensive




  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    <<SNIP>>

    OP said 40k was his budget. Now he is being advised to buy an EV for €44k which is higher than budget but possibly still within reach. He may order this today and get it tomorrow or get it in July. Then that amazing no brainer could possibly become €49k as opposed to €40k on any other EV he gets before July, any ICE he gets todays or any PhEv he buys this year

    Nobody knows what is going to happen with the grant and also nobody knows how certain any car deliveries are, be it EV or ICE.

    Leading people down the garden path isn’t a nice thing to do

    Post edited by liamog on


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    He wants new. Any other cars available immediately new?



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    Like I said nobody knows anything about car deliveries. <<SNIP>>



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    In the realm of new car purchases an extra €4k on a estimated €40k purchase isn't that much extra, no manufacturers have solid delivery pipelines right now, and any specific changes to the grant are speculation. It's well within the general advice on this forum to give recommendations slightly above and below the price bracket given by the OP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭deadl0ck


    So I could stretch to the Model 3 (not Model S - that was a typo) actually but hadn't given full electric a lot of thought till now TBH.

    I don't have a trade in as I had a company car for years and I will be getting rid of that (lease runs out in August but I can return it early if I need to) and switching to a car allowance of 10K per year (before tax) and with that extra and not having to pay BIK every month I had set my budget to 40K with an 8K cash deposit and the rest as a loan/finance deal.

    What is the recommended service interval on the Model 3 - it's hard to find exactly online ? Tesla say "Your Tesla vehicle does not require annual maintenance or regular fluid changes. Check your owner’s manual for latest maintenance recommendations for your vehicle." so I'm wondering would there be much/any savings there ?

    BTW- thanks for all the advice here - really got me thinking !

    Post edited by deadl0ck on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Are there any full EV's available for immediate purchase?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    I would be wary of a model S, one guy here had 4 batteries replaced in his, your budget would mean buying a car with only a couple of years of warranty.

    I was aware of the price drop on the 3&Y and would be tempted to purchase it, even though I dislike the interior, but petrol use of my phev is only 50 euro every 2 months or so,

    why bother putting myself into debt to save 600 euro a year along with the uncertainty of public charging?

    You mentioned the niro, range is probably 40 km, 5.5l/100km, your 60 km trip would cost you 7 units of electricity for 40 km and 1.1 litres of petrol.

    If you buy a phev expect to use some petrol.

    The k3 niro is 40k and the newer k4 is 43k, bigger battery closer to 50 km, another problem with the k3 niro is heating, to heat the car it needs petrol, I cannot say for the k4.

    I passed by an X ceed phev the other day driving up to Dublin in my phev, yes a long trip of 300 km return, still have 33% of my petrol I bought last month, passed by ionity, ecars and apple-green hubs without the need to relieve myself or get a bite to eat, anyway I thought it was a nice looking car for 37k.

    4000 euro is a lot of money for some, sometimes it can be justified in spending more to get more, like a 100 bhp increase plus fuel savings in the case of the Peugeots above.

    I would prefer to compare a long range Tesla to a phev, the price difference is on a par or better than for the phev depending on make.

    Its your money OP best of luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,262 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    The OP said “around 40k”. This was not given as an upper limit or a set budget and can be taken that there is room to increase this as the OP has since clarified.

    we can only give advice and opinions based on the grant today. The OP knows there is no guarantee of getting the grant after July, but if a M3 or MY were ordered now, it’s not only the most likely car to arrive before any other EV, it’s more likely than not to arrive within a few weeks as orders are cancelled due to speculation or change of mind.

    Nobody's being lead down the garden path.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭deadl0ck


    Typo above - I should have said model 3 not model S !! I could stretch the budget to a base model 3 ! (I've edited above to correct it)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    The dealership I bought from is advertising adecent choice of Cupra Born available in February. Around the 40k budget too, slightly over. But still one of the cheaper full EV options out there.

    Not sure what the others are like as regards waiting lists.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,149 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    OP, my 2cent considering I'm awaiting delivery of a PHEV is that I'm making a change from a Diesel. When I bought the current car in 2016 I was coming from a company car and had no trade in car, did manage to use a car for scrappage when they had it and got 0% PCP. I kept the car after 3 years so it is now my trade in. If I didn't have a trade in now, with the APR rates and the much higher prices then I would not be buying the Tucson I've ordered, just couldn't financially justify it. Afford it, yes but justify it to myself then No.

    My minimum daily mileage is 38kms and IF on a good day I get 50kms from the Tucson then I'd be happy. Concern is that the car despises you trying to use hot/cold air in the climate control and reverts to Hybrid/ICE out of full EV mode. However, I will still see a benefit from fuel savings based on my general usage. I will also be taking this PHEV to France(if it turns up) and of course irregular longer journeys. Sometimes I have to visit a customer(with mileage rates) so that will help cover a tank of petrol here and there.

    Will a BEV be better? Yes, could I afford what I wanted BEV-wise when I ordered the Tucson, in the spec I wanted? No. With the Tesla price drop did I think of a Tesla M3? Yes, as it was cheaper but two things stood in my way. I didn't want to haggle for a trade in price as I knew Tesla wouldn't entertain my car and I had no interest in privately selling it and the other thing was I just don't like the look of the Tesla M3. Yes, I know people also think that the Tucson is butt ugly so hey ho. Did I consider other EVs? I did but I did the wife-test(she is also paying towards it but will never drive it) and pointed out cars "Do you like that car?" If it looks nice and she gets heated seats then I'm okay to order it except my list of requirements is much longer.



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