Thinking of buying a PHEV

deadl0ck

I'm going to change my car and I'm very tempted to go for a PHEV.

I live in the Midlands and the standard drives are about 50 to 60km round trip if I go to the town (Mullingar, Longford or Athlone) and the kids schools are about 5km and 15km away.

I work from home the majority of the time and when I do go to the office in Dublin I get the train from Mullingar.

I like the idea of the PHEV as it should cover my standard use cases, but I still would have petrol for longer drives if and when needed.

My budget is around the 40k mark and I had started to look at the Kia Niro.

Any other suggestions as to what I should consider in that price range?

...Ghost...

A PHEV won't cover your typical range on battery alone, especially not in colder months. You would be using petrol alot of the time. Have you considered a full EV? Any EV built in the last few years would cover your daily needs, but your budget just about buys a Tesla Model 3 since it has recently dropped in price to around 44k. It would get you to Dublin and back on a single charge. The larger SUV type Model Y is 2k more. These might be worth considering.

deadl0ck

Wow. Didn't realise that.

Is there a crazy waiting period do you know?

Alkers

At that price point just go full EV

...Ghost...

@deadl0ck If you order now, it is likely you will be offered a cancelled order due for March deliveries. A lot of people ordered Model Y but will probably not be taking delivery because the price drop reduced the value of their model 3 much lower than expected due to the high number of Model Y orders relative to Model 3 trade-ins.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207218#Comment_120207218

Agree with earlier advice to go full EV but if you already have a car to trade in you may have to look beyond a new Tesla to other makes. Tesla are unlikely to want your existing car.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207242#Comment_120207242

They don’t even want Teslas as trade-ins right now, as they are focused on new car deliveries. Any trade-in is farmed out for offers from other dealerships. Selling privately or using the likes of zucar is the best option. Even if the trade offer is not good, the price difference makes it a no-brainer when looking to the competition.

Abel Magwitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207908#Comment_120207908

Nice to see we haven't moved past the "no brainer" option to buy Teslas yet their market share is...checks notes....not 100%

As the pie grows larger their share gets smaller

smh

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207949#Comment_120207949

Maybe you aren't aware of the recent price cut. Its hard to argue with anybody that they don't offer great value compared to the alternatives right now.

Abel Magwitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208787#Comment_120208787

I am aware. And yes they offer decent value (ofc nobody knows delivery dates until they come, which defo does impact price if after June so then the decent value point is up in the air). But using the words "no brainer" to somebody who is exploring options of a new car is misleading at best. Same poster constantly at it in multiple threads. I will push back against this when I see it

innrain

He is aware, just doesn't like Teslas. I was just leafing the usual magazines auto-express/autocar/what a car, and was thinking how hard is to push a new car right now. Example at hand Opel Astra PHEV The car tested 53k, the cheapest 46k. They have launched the EV variant no prices yet but based on the other models expect few 000s more.

You really have to hate Teslas to pay 10k more for this. Having said that competition is good and I hope they'll find ways to make Astra what it was 25 years ago.

Buddy Bubs

Surely an astra will be id3/cupra born price and not 10k above?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209056#Comment_120209056

Opel Ireland pricelist. Probably add delivery 1-2k

LasersGoPewPew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209301#Comment_120209301

Wow. I'm astonished at those prices, not even a BEV. Who on earth would buy one at those?

Water John

Definitely consider a full EV, but then I was never a fan of the half way house.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209301#Comment_120209301

Just wow. I haven't looked at many pricelists recently but the astra has not just reached the price of the class of its bigger sibling the insignia (has that been discontinued?) but is now up there with 330e prices for the phev.

liamog

Mod Note: Keep the personal disagreements out of the forum, posts deleted. Stick to attack the post, not the poster.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208969#Comment_120208969

The decent value will still be decent value after June as every other ev will have risen by the same amount. So relatively speaking, it will still be decent value compared to all others for sale in June and beyond.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209820#Comment_120209820

It does depend somewhat on what happens, if they take the approach they have with VRT relief reductions we could see a graduated reduction in grant leading to cheaper cars staying the same whilst the more expensive models become more expensive. It's all speculation right now and I suspect SIMI is campaigning hard that it's too early to start phasing out whilst we're still in a supply constrained market.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209553#Comment_120209553

Yes Insignia got discontinued with expected return as EV somewhere in 2026. The SUV is the big thing now, Opel offering Crossland, Mokka and Grandland.

OpelPassengerCarsRetailPriceList01022023.pdf

If you want to see more pricelists have a look at Peugeot which I really like and think of 508 as a decent Model3 competitor. For those who prefer SUVs 5008 vs MYRWD still few 000's more expensive

Abel Magwitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209820#Comment_120209820

<<SNIP>>

OP said 40k was his budget. Now he is being advised to buy an EV for €44k which is higher than budget but possibly still within reach. He may order this today and get it tomorrow or get it in July. Then that amazing no brainer could possibly become €49k as opposed to €40k on any other EV he gets before July, any ICE he gets todays or any PhEv he buys this year

Nobody knows what is going to happen with the grant and also nobody knows how certain any car deliveries are, be it EV or ICE.

Leading people down the garden path isn’t a nice thing to do

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210284#Comment_120210284

He wants new. Any other cars available immediately new?

Abel Magwitch

Like I said nobody knows anything about car deliveries. <<SNIP>>

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210284#Comment_120210284

In the realm of new car purchases an extra €4k on a estimated €40k purchase isn't that much extra, no manufacturers have solid delivery pipelines right now, and any specific changes to the grant are speculation. It's well within the general advice on this forum to give recommendations slightly above and below the price bracket given by the OP.

deadl0ck

So I could stretch to the Model 3 (not Model S - that was a typo) actually but hadn't given full electric a lot of thought till now TBH.

I don't have a trade in as I had a company car for years and I will be getting rid of that (lease runs out in August but I can return it early if I need to) and switching to a car allowance of 10K per year (before tax) and with that extra and not having to pay BIK every month I had set my budget to 40K with an 8K cash deposit and the rest as a loan/finance deal.

What is the recommended service interval on the Model 3 - it's hard to find exactly online ? Tesla say "Your Tesla vehicle does not require annual maintenance or regular fluid changes. Check your owner’s manual for latest maintenance recommendations for your vehicle." so I'm wondering would there be much/any savings there ?

BTW- thanks for all the advice here - really got me thinking !

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210379#Comment_120210379

Are there any full EV's available for immediate purchase?

kanuseeme

I would be wary of a model S, one guy here had 4 batteries replaced in his, your budget would mean buying a car with only a couple of years of warranty.

I was aware of the price drop on the 3&Y and would be tempted to purchase it, even though I dislike the interior, but petrol use of my phev is only 50 euro every 2 months or so,

why bother putting myself into debt to save 600 euro a year along with the uncertainty of public charging?

You mentioned the niro, range is probably 40 km, 5.5l/100km, your 60 km trip would cost you 7 units of electricity for 40 km and 1.1 litres of petrol.

If you buy a phev expect to use some petrol.

The k3 niro is 40k and the newer k4 is 43k, bigger battery closer to 50 km, another problem with the k3 niro is heating, to heat the car it needs petrol, I cannot say for the k4.

I passed by an X ceed phev the other day driving up to Dublin in my phev, yes a long trip of 300 km return, still have 33% of my petrol I bought last month, passed by ionity, ecars and apple-green hubs without the need to relieve myself or get a bite to eat, anyway I thought it was a nice looking car for 37k.

4000 euro is a lot of money for some, sometimes it can be justified in spending more to get more, like a 100 bhp increase plus fuel savings in the case of the Peugeots above.

I would prefer to compare a long range Tesla to a phev, the price difference is on a par or better than for the phev depending on make.

Its your money OP best of luck.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210284#Comment_120210284

The OP said “around 40k”. This was not given as an upper limit or a set budget and can be taken that there is room to increase this as the OP has since clarified.

we can only give advice and opinions based on the grant today. The OP knows there is no guarantee of getting the grant after July, but if a M3 or MY were ordered now, it’s not only the most likely car to arrive before any other EV, it’s more likely than not to arrive within a few weeks as orders are cancelled due to speculation or change of mind.

Nobody's being lead down the garden path.

deadl0ck

Typo above - I should have said model 3 not model S !! I could stretch the budget to a base model 3 ! (I've edited above to correct it)

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210619#Comment_120210619

The dealership I bought from is advertising adecent choice of Cupra Born available in February. Around the 40k budget too, slightly over. But still one of the cheaper full EV options out there.

Not sure what the others are like as regards waiting lists.

Berty

OP, my 2cent considering I'm awaiting delivery of a PHEV is that I'm making a change from a Diesel. When I bought the current car in 2016 I was coming from a company car and had no trade in car, did manage to use a car for scrappage when they had it and got 0% PCP. I kept the car after 3 years so it is now my trade in. If I didn't have a trade in now, with the APR rates and the much higher prices then I would not be buying the Tucson I've ordered, just couldn't financially justify it. Afford it, yes but justify it to myself then No.

My minimum daily mileage is 38kms and IF on a good day I get 50kms from the Tucson then I'd be happy. Concern is that the car despises you trying to use hot/cold air in the climate control and reverts to Hybrid/ICE out of full EV mode. However, I will still see a benefit from fuel savings based on my general usage. I will also be taking this PHEV to France(if it turns up) and of course irregular longer journeys. Sometimes I have to visit a customer(with mileage rates) so that will help cover a tank of petrol here and there.

Will a BEV be better? Yes, could I afford what I wanted BEV-wise when I ordered the Tucson, in the spec I wanted? No. With the Tesla price drop did I think of a Tesla M3? Yes, as it was cheaper but two things stood in my way. I didn't want to haggle for a trade in price as I knew Tesla wouldn't entertain my car and I had no interest in privately selling it and the other thing was I just don't like the look of the Tesla M3. Yes, I know people also think that the Tucson is butt ugly so hey ho. Did I consider other EVs? I did but I did the wife-test(she is also paying towards it but will never drive it) and pointed out cars "Do you like that car?" If it looks nice and she gets heated seats then I'm okay to order it except my list of requirements is much longer.

liamog

Mod Note: Split out the meta discussion's on timescales as it doesn't seem much benefit to OP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058283292/ev-delivery-timescales#latest

deadl0ck

Again - thanks all for the info / advice

I have booked a Model 3 testdrive for Saturday next week (18th) so I'll see how that goes

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214373#Comment_120214373

Enjoy.

watch how to engage autopilot and get yourself onto a nice stretch of road. Don’t be afraid to put the foot down 😁

Grumpypants

I'd give the phev a skip at this point. I sold mine in the summer. It did it's job of getting me to an EV but the only reason I bought it was I couldn't afford an EV at the time. If you have 40k then you are not in the sane boat.

The constant charging will play havoc with the already small battery. If you are doing 50km round trips daily then you will be charging 2-3 times a day. That's 600-1000 full charge cycles a year. In comparison if you get a model 3 it's more like 50-70.

Model 3 and Y are decent prices now. There are some cheaper options too. Depends on what size you want. The MG Model 4 for example is in the 28-36k range and is a great car.

obi604

in regard to a Tucson PHEV, looks like they have a battery size of 13.8 kwh

if one drove fairly easy, could you potentially get clsoe to 100km from the battery alone?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517243#Comment_121517243

Is that gross or net capacity? Important as the hybrid batteries tend to have large top and bottom buffers. I don't drive a Tucson but I would say 60 km on ideal conditions if it's say 10 kWh net capacity.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517243#Comment_121517243

not a hope

NIMAN

My phev has a 12.8kw battery I think.

I get 50km.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518964#Comment_121518964

ah ok. suppose I was thinking along the lines of some very efficient EV's that could potentially use 13.8 kWh per 100km

but maybe the battery in these PHEV's is used slightly differently or just not efficient

The official range on EV mode is 61 km so in reality it's probably considerably less.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518987#Comment_121518987

silly q time, lets say my battery is fully charged and I drive 3km at 20 kph to get to the motorway, battery wont have gone down much and I should still have a good bit left.

I then hit the motorway and speed goes up to 120kph, will the battery just drain at this speed after about 30km or so? and then petrol engine kicks in

Alkers

That will happen in most case. Some others have very underpowered electric motors so may require the engine to kick in to accelerate hard or even maintain motorway speed

Other phevs will have settings to run on only electric or only petrol to suit your journey.

Motorway is not the best usage case for Phevs unless you can cover your full daily commute on battery only.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518945#Comment_121518945

11 kwh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517243#Comment_121517243

potentially yes, but do you want to spend 4 hours crawling along.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518992#Comment_121518992

probably around 22 kwh/100km for nice and steady driving, so 50 km range

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519008#Comment_121519008

yes more than likely, any phev I had, you could switch over to engine and save the battery for slower driving, I cannot say if its the same for the Tucson.

Let me guess, the wife does not want a BEV?

PaulRyan97

I have a Golf GTE, 13kWh battery, roughly 10.5 usable. in EV mode at the moment I average roughly 30kWh/100km. That's with city driving. Looking back at stats from the summer it was ~20kWh/100km so the weather has a huge impact. Longest I have ever got out of it was 65km, lowest was about 25-30km.

I do a Cork-Dublin every 3 or 4 weeks, roughly 250km. I always leave with a full battery and drive in hybrid mode. I usually average around 5kWh/100km and a fuel consumption of 4.5-5l/100km. That's at 120km/h the whole way. Usually arrive in Dublin with 5-10km estimated range remaining.

NIMAN

Yeah mine is being hammered since the wet and windy weather has arrived.

A short local trip with might have used 20% is now using 30% or perhaps even 32%.

But thankfully it still suits my needs as the longest trip I do regularly, my commute, is still manageable one way on battery only.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520792#Comment_121520792

thanks. so battery can get you between 25 and 65km

but then sounds like you can turn off EV mode completely if needed and use the electric motor as a 'help' on motorway drives for the petrol engine to help with fuel economy

PaulRyan97

Exactly, for long distance driving beyond battery range it's usually better to just leave the car do it's thing in hybrid mode. The motor aids the engine, reducing load under acceleration, recouping energy when decelerating and even allowing it to shut off for periods where the motor alone will maintain speed.

Usually at the end of a 250km run, I've done at least 10-15% of that with the engine off. In the Summer efficiency is better obviously, a handful of runs I've gotten ~4L/100km which is pretty good for a heavy car like that.

PHEVs can suit a lot of people, but if you're spending as much on one as you would an equivalent EV you'd want to make sure it actually does suit your use case better.

NIMAN

An important thing to remember with phev is that for them to work out for you, you really need to charge them every night and use the full battery every day.

I suspect many owners fail to run them like this, and often don't bother charging them each night and just use them like a petrol car.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522029#Comment_121522029

I think that was the case for the company cars - outlanders in particular but for anyone paying their own fuel, it's a no brainer to plug in daily, your pretty much saving a 5er with every battery charge.